*Official* English Football Season 2012-13

[Uppercut]

In a sense I think this might make it easier for Arsenal. The fact that the entire squad is pretty decent to good these days has (hopefully) made it clear that the only thing they can now do is try and go and make some big name signings. And I expect they will make some tbh, just have to hope that they don't turn out to be duds or horribly injury prone or something. Better not sell any players either, that'd be so dumb.

The problem isn't that they don't want to sign anyone world-class, it's that no one world-class will come. When it comes to it I couldn't name a single world-class striker that would come to Arsenal. It would take an outlandish move for someone like Ibrahimovic or someone plucked from obscurity that turns out to be incredible.

Spurs having discovered that their third reserve left-back is the next Ronaldo puts them at a big advantage for as long as they can hold on to him. Arsenal put together a great run and an excellent points total to stay ahead this year but Spurs only need to get the rest of the team up to a good standard to move ahead.

 

[Cabinet96]

I don't know if we really need two quality midfielders. We've got quite a few decent ones as it is.

.......Arteta---QualityDM........
Walcott--Wilshire--Cazorla

Would work IMO. Then we've still got Rosicky, Diaby, Ramesy etc. as cover.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a midfielder like Fabregas in there as well, but I don't know if it's really needed.

 

[sledger]

I don't know if we really need two quality midfielders. We've got quite a few decent ones as it is.

.......Arteta---QualityDM........
Walcott--Wilshire--Cazorla

Would work IMO. Then we've still got Rosicky, Diaby, Ramesy etc. as cover.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a midfielder like Fabregas in there as well, but I don't know if it's really needed.

The problem with that line up for me, is that Cazorla is a lot more effective when playing in the middle, and Arteta is unlikely to be a particularly long term option - given his age and the rather physically demanding nature of the role he's being asked to play in that system. Furthermore, Wilshere has so far been at his most effective when playing in a deep-lying role (though plenty of time for him to show his other qualities), which Arteta is currently occupying.

Moreover, whilst Diaby, Ramsey and Rosicky are all dependable when fit, they've a horrible record with injury problems, so two midfielders coming in would definitely be desirable for me. One defensive and another more attacking-minded, depending on how Wilshere will be used.

I think the chances of Fabregas coming back are more or less nil, but I don't think there's an obvious place for him in that side, even with what I have proposed. Arsenal's style has moved on from the days when he was there. Have no doubt he would be welcomed back, but there are several players now with his skill set.

A more pressing need is how to get Bentdner off the books, which probably won't be easy given the fact he's had a terrible season for Juve and is now injured again. Why the **** can't players like him ever be the ones whose contracts are running out ffs.

 

[sledger]

The problem isn't that they don't want to sign anyone world-class, it's that no one world-class will come. When it comes to it I couldn't name a single world-class striker that would come to Arsenal. It would take an outlandish move for someone like Ibrahimovic or someone plucked from obscurity that turns out to be incredible.

Spurs having discovered that their third reserve left-back is the next Ronaldo puts them at a big advantage for as long as they can hold on to him. Arsenal put together a great run and an excellent points total to stay ahead this year but Spurs only need to get the rest of the team up to a good standard to move ahead.

The Bale advantage is only any good so long as they improve the rest of the squad at the same rate their peers improve their squads imo. The fact that he went through a purple patch in the second half of the season was the only thing that kept the race for 4th place competitive, they'd have left miles behind if it wasn't for him. Unless Spurs improve their team a fair bit, I think it'd be fairly unsurprising if they were to suffer the same fate next season, even if Bale remains in the form he is now, more so if he doesn't.

RE: Arsenal and World Class players, imo there is still enough there to attract really top talent. Clearly Arsenal aren't going to go out and buy Ronaldo etc... but I think targets like Jovetic and Higuain are far from unrealistic. Granted Jovetic might not be world class I suppose, but y'know. Big signings rather than world class ones, would perhaps have been a better way of putting it.

 

[Furball]

Arsenal definitely missed out on Vertonghen last summer. They should have punted Vermaelen and taken Vertonghen instead.

Should try and persuade Lewandowski to try his luck in England.

 

[Ikki]

I don't think it's particularly helpful to attempt to compartmentalise the facets of a team's success like that tbh.

I think a manager like Ferguson has an exponential influence. He just makes every player that much better - consequently making the team better - and for me one of the biggest differentiators between a successful side and an unsuccessful one is mentality. I think it goes across sports too. I've said it before but United, much like the domineering Australian cricket team, had an incredible mentality to win. Even when they were playing poorly and their opponents had them on the ropes, they knew what it took to make the small difference that could change the outcome.

Or look at Liverpool from 2008-09 runner ups to 2009-2010 6th placers. Really, the only notable difference was Alonso leaving...and as good as he was, he just wasn't that good. The biggest thing for me was Benitez's relationship with the owners. Having to fight them off for years had finally grated on him and the players (who knew of the owners breaking promises). The season didn't start off like it should have and never recovered because the guillotine was always dangling over the manager. Liverpool used to be a very hard team to beat during all bar Benitez's last season. He instilled the mentality that Liverpool were never out of a match. Its taken to this season for the team to make consecutive and multiple comebacks from being a goal down. And yet, the season after we came runner-up and even those after don't explain how a team went from 2nd to 6th and worse. We went from a team that got every little detail right 9/10, to one which folded after big mistakes.

So for me, mentality is a huge thing and Ferguson not being there casts a doubt. I have never heard of a manager staying on for 26 consecutive years like Ferguson in any sport. That shows a gargantuan appetite and will to win. It's impossible to replace really and its a great opportunity for the teams below United to make a move.

 

[Pothas]

The Bale advantage is only any good so long as they improve the rest of the squad at the same rate their peers improve their squads imo. The fact that he went through a purple patch in the second half of the season was the only thing that kept the race for 4th place competitive, they'd have left miles behind if it wasn't for him. Unless Spurs improve their team a fair bit, I think it'd be fairly unsurprising if they were to suffer the same fate next season, even if Bale remains in the form he is now, more so if he doesn't.

RE: Arsenal and World Class players, imo there is still enough there to attract really top talent. Clearly Arsenal aren't going to go out and buy Ronaldo etc... but I think targets like Jovetic and Higuain are far from unrealistic. Granted Jovetic might not be world class I suppose, but y'know. Big signings rather than world class ones, would perhaps have been a better way of putting it.

Spurs did beat a lot more top sides than Arsenal this season though which I think shows their potential. They will also have Sandro back who was a big loss in the second half the season. If they get Villa and Moutinho as has been rumoured as well as Sandro back I would say that is a pretty big step up.

 

[Pothas]

Arsenal definitely missed out on Vertonghen last summer. They should have punted Vermaelen and taken Vertonghen instead.

Should try and persuade Lewandowski to try his luck in England.

Lewandowski is exactly the level of player they need and exactly the sort they will not get. Jovetic seems a lot more likely, so it is going to be about if that sort of level of player can really thrive, which is certainly possible bit not guaranteed.

 

[Cabinet96]

Should try and persuade Lewandowski to try his luck in England.

Goes back to what Uppercut was saying though doesn't it. He's wanted pretty much everywhere. He isn't coming to Arsenal.

 

[sledger]

I think a manager like Ferguson has an exponential influence. He just makes every player that much better and for me one of the biggest differentiators between a successful side and an unsuccessful one is mentality. I think it goes across sports too. I've said it before but United, much like the domineering Australian cricket team, had an incredible mentality to win. Even when they were playing poorly and their opponents had them on the ropes, they knew what it took to make the small difference that could change the outcome.

Or look at Liverpool from 2008-09 runner ups to 2009-2010 6th placers. Really, the only notable difference was Alonso leaving...and as good as he was, he just wasn't that good. The biggest thing for me was Benitez's relationship with the owners. Having to fight them off for years had finally grated on him and the players (who knew of the owners breaking promises). The season didn't start off like it should have and never recovered because the guillotine was always dangling over the manager. Liverpool used to be a very hard team to beat during all bar Benitez's last season. He instilled the mentality that Liverpool were never out of a match. Its taken to this season for the team to make consecutive and multiple comebacks from being a goal down. And yet, the season after we came runner-up and even those after don't explain how a team went from 2nd to 6th and worse.

So for me, mentality is a huge thing and Ferguson not being there casts a doubt. I have never heard of a manager staying on for 26 consecutive years like Ferguson in any sport. That shows a gargantuan appetite and will to win. It's impossible to replace really.

I don't really disagree with anything you've said there, but I don't think it's possible to filter out, from any successes, how much was down to managerial influence/team quality with any real degree of certainty.

Obviously coaches make a big difference, the examples you mention above are great examples of that. But a manager's ethos and tactics can only ever be as good as his team is at implementing them. Utd's title win this season, for example, is not purely down to the fact that Ferguson was (feels weird to say was, rather than is) a good manager.

I see what you're driving at here, but as I said above, to try and split out the manager from the team itself is a little too mechanical for my liking, and makes things appear more black and white than they in fact are. Apologies if this is not actually what you are attempting to do.

 

[Ikki]

Nah mate I reckon your points are valid. We just obviously disagree in this case how influential a manager can be. I agree that its definitely not clear as to how much influence Ferguson really had - that remains to be seen - where we differ is just exactly on how much. I simply think his influence could be that great that it may harm them to that extent. You don't agree which is fine.

 

[sledger]

Spurs did beat a lot more top sides than Arsenal this season though which I think shows their potential. They will also have Sandro back who was a big loss in the second half the season. If they get Villa and Moutinho as has been rumoured as well as Sandro back I would say that is a pretty big step up.

Spurs would undoubtedly be improved by having a better forward than Adebayor, that much is certain, and shouldn't be understated. But if both Arsenal and Spurs both secure all their mooted targets for the summer, I'd still favour Arsenal to finish above them (he said, hopefully).

Whilst it is also true that Arsenal didn't beat as many of the top sides, it would have been interesting to see how different things would have been if they had played more of the top sides after they turned things around after losing to Spurs. Also, whilst they may not have played many of the top sides in that period, they still had to play a number of tough fixtures, particularly away ones, and played a fantastic game against Bayern Munich in the second leg of the Champions League tie, which was largely overlooked/forgotten about by a lot of people.

 

[sledger]

Lewandowski is exactly the level of player they need and exactly the sort they will not get. Jovetic seems a lot more likely, so it is going to be about if that sort of level of player can really thrive, which is certainly possible bit not guaranteed.

Should bid for Torres I reckon.

 

[Ikki]

Arsenal are going to be better next year because their players are going to be a year more mature and cohered. And I don't think any of them had a standout outlier of a season they can't reproduce next season.

If they actually get that 20-25 goals a season forward then they'll challenge. They have their squad in order and an excellent starting XI. Surprisingly, they had the 2nd best defence in the league, 3 goals worse than City.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Watched an episode of "This is Liverpool" the other night and could not believe how unimpressive he was

Obviously it is edited and things were probably taken out of context but he generally spoke vacuous, shallow **** and I have literally heard better team talks at my son's under 8s swimming squad

Whole programme was absolutly hilarious; Rodgers is clearly one of those ****s whose ego is so big it extends to a belief he doesn't have a massive ego.

I was banging the gong for the unitentional wonderousness of the show earlier in the season:

This programme is genius!

I really don't think it's working on the level Liverpool had imagined tho, unless a footy version of This Is Spinal Tap was their goal.

When they come to remake The Office Rodgers is a shoo in for David Brent. Highlights so far:

"I wasn't born with a silver spoon; I had a silver shovel"

"Everyone who works for Liverpool makes as important a contribution as me because they work for Liverpool"

"Player plus environment equals behaviour"



Man, he's a ****ing idiot.

OMFG.

Rodgers has a ****ing huge portrait of himself on his dining room wall. I literally cannot believe it.

"Rodgerisms" will enter the language. Also showed he has a great line in oxymorons,

"I want it relaxed but focussed"

But for sheer dramatic irony I think we have a winner,

"It's going to take something incredible for him to leave the football club"

Guess who he was talking about...?

Rodgers in a rich vein of form tonight on Being: Liverpool

"You won't always be your best but as long as you can give your best"

"Good enough isn't good enough"

 

[sledger]

"Player plus environment equals behaviour"

That one takes the biscuit for me. Rodgers, B. The Philosopher King.

 

[Ikki]

Carroll looks to be set for 15m. IMO that's actually a good price for the buying club...****house for us. 20 million loss in a year...has to be the worst transfer in EPL history.

 

[grecian]

Carroll looks to be set for 15m. IMO that's actually a good price for the buying club...****house for us. 20 million loss in a year...has to be the worst transfer in EPL history.

He's not worth 5, lucky to only lose 20, I loved KD as a player, but worst signing ever.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Carroll looks to be set for 15m. IMO that's actually a good price for the buying club...****house for us. 20 million loss in a year...has to be the worst transfer in EPL history.

I see your Shandy Carroll and raise you Juan Sebastien Veron and Fernando Torres.

 

[Uppercut]

Whilst it is also true that Arsenal didn't beat as many of the top sides, it would have been interesting to see how different things would have been if they had played more of the top sides after they turned things around after losing to Spurs. Also, whilst they may not have played many of the top sides in that period, they still had to play a number of tough fixtures, particularly away ones, and played a fantastic game against Bayern Munich in the second leg of the Champions League tie, which was largely overlooked/forgotten about by a lot of people.

See I think a big part of the reason they turned things around after losing at Spurs was because they only played dud teams. They did have United at home but played very badly and were lucky to come away with a point.

It was a good run and they deserve a lot of credit for stringing together so many good results at a critical time, but I think Arsenal fans are reading too much into it. They were mostly functional performances rather than spectacular ones, your sort of 1-0 wins away to QPR, Newcastle or Fulham. Not to take anything away from the achievement but it's not as much of a reason for optimism as most of the Arsenal fans I've spoken to seem to think.