*Official* English Football Season 2012-13

[The Sean]

Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher to retire at end of season | News...

Not unexpected. I've never been his biggest fan as a player but he's been a tremendous servant of the club. So scouse he could be a caricature.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by The Sean

So scouse he could be a caricature.

Aside from that time where he threw money back into the crowd at Highbury.

[sledger]

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber

It'll feed the frenzy and the numpties will lap it up. A creditable draw would have done, as it is we will now be set to conquer the world.

We'll see. I suspect that even the tabloids know enough of our tournament record not to go OTT nowadays. As was the case before the Euros IIRC. Then add Gerrard's comments about how we aren't even certain to qualify, and expectations are lower that was the case a few years back. What does worry me is the OTT reaction to Wilshere's performance, including some comments from guys like Lampard who really should know better having been part of the 'golden generation' and therefore knowing what it's like not to remotely live uip to expectations.

The performance was good in parts, and there was far more flexibility than we'd been led to believe from Hodgson. And it helped massively that guys like Rooney and Gerrard actually lived up to their billing. But truth is that if Ronaldino and Goldilocks had done what they should have done with the penalty and open goal then we'd all be shrugging our shoulders today.

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by wpdavid

We'll see. I suspect that even the tabloids know enough of our tournament record not to go OTT nowadays. As was the case before the Euros IIRC.

That was because Harry hadn't got the job as they all wanted so the knives were out.

[grecian]

Originally Posted by wpdavid

We'll see. I suspect that even the tabloids know enough of our tournament record not to go OTT nowadays. As was the case before the Euros IIRC. Then add Gerrard's comments about how we aren't even certain to qualify, and expectations are lower that was the case a few years back. What does worry me is the OTT reaction to Wilshere's performance, including some comments from guys like Lampard who really should know better having been part of the 'golden generation' and therefore knowing what it's like not to remotely live uip to expectations.

The performance was good in parts, and there was far more flexibility than we'd been led to believe from Hodgson. And it helped massively that guys like Rooney and Gerrard actually lived up to their billing. But truth is that if Ronaldino and Goldilocks had done what they should have done with the penalty and open goal then we'd all be shrugging our shoulders today.

Hmm, TBF I'm as down about England ATM, then most. But I think you've got to give credit when it's due. We were actually very good at times, the movement was superb. Of course Wilshere is going to be hyped to hell, because he's the exact player England have been praying for, for years, doesn't give it away, but can attack and defend. Yet he is very good, so at least the hype is for a worthy player. Was a game reminiscent of prime Gazza.

TBH Brazils pen was soft, and we had a better shout, so the inevitable "whatifs" in the match weren't particularly slanted against ing-er-land.

Not saying we'll win the World Cup or owt, but it was a promising match, and you don't see many of them from England nowadays.

[grecian]

Originally Posted by marc71178

That was because Harry hadn't got the job as they all wanted so the knives were out.

Yep, if this performance had been under him, we'd have massive hype all over the 'papers. St georges crosses sprayed on the front page et al. Which is why it's good news he isn't manager, the Scum is in particular love with 'arry. Remember the tabs didn't like Sir Alf or Sir Bobby either.

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by grecian

Hmm, TBF I'm as down about England ATM, then most. But I think you've got to give credit when it's due. We were actually very good at times, the movement was superb. Of course Wilshere is going to be hyped to hell, because he's the exact player England have been praying for, for years, doesn't give it away, but can attack and defend. Yet he is very good, so at least the hype is for a worthy player. Was a game reminiscent of prime Gazza.

TBH Brazils pen was soft, and we had a better shout, so the inevitable "whatifs" in the match weren't particularly slanted against ing-er-land.

Not saying we'll win the World Cup or owt, but it was a promising match, and you don't see many of them from England nowadays.

Yeah, I didn't mean to be too down on the performance. It was more watchable and more coherent than we've seen from the national side for ages. Not just from the youngsters finding their feet at this level, but from most of the established players too. And I do agree that Wilshere is a real prospect, but my natural inclination is to stay away from the hype about our youngsters being world class when really they're extremely promising.

Anyway, with all the talk of Wilshere reminding us of Gazza in Italia 1990, was anyone else reminded of Hoddle's debut goal against Bulgaria (below) when Lampard side footed the winner?

1979 (November 22) England 2-Bulgaria 0 (EC Qualifier).avi - YouTube

[BoyBrumby]

Must admit I didn't watch the game (need Silvio Berlusconi-strength viagra to get it up for friendlies now), but aren't Brazil ranked at the all time low in the FIFA top of the pops?

18th, I think I read. Obviously being the host nation and not having to qualify for the WC must be a factor, but the same would've been true after they won in 94 and they didn't drop so low.

Anyway, long story short: it's not a great Brazil team and it was probably a good time to play them.

[sledger]

Tbf though, in all my life I can't remember a time when someone or other wasn't saying that Brazil weren't as good as they once were. Even in 2002 when they were actually really good, nobody really seemed to fancy them until they reached the semi-finals of the WC.

[Ikki]

It is a big call, but: if England had Wilshire in the Euros IMO they would have beaten Italy. They really lacked a player between the forward and midfield lines and suffered hugely because of it. Imagine a Wilshire sitting on top of Pirlo and threading those same little passes for the wingers. England would not have been dominated like they were. They asked Rooney to do that role and he was **** to say the least, but it's far more natural for Wilshire. That's why - regardless of how good Brazil are exactly - England actually were fluid and nice to watch.

[GingerFurball]

Why couldn't Gerrard have done it?

[grecian]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

Must admit I didn't watch the game (need Silvio Berlusconi-strength viagra to get it up for friendlies now), but aren't Brazil ranked at the all time low in the FIFA top of the pops?

18th, I think I read. Obviously being the host nation and not having to qualify for the WC must be a factor, but the same would've been true after they won in 94 and they didn't drop so low.

Anyway, long story short: it's not a great Brazil team and it was probably a good time to play them.

Yeah, but TBF Brumbers, I didn't even mention the quality of the Brazilians in my post. England played well, and seemed to pass the ball fluidly, and Jack was as has been labored massively Gazza 1990 like.

No reason to go into hyperbolic over-drive, but it was nice to see.

oh and Fifa World-rankings

[grecian]

Originally Posted by wpdavid

Yeah, I didn't mean to be too down on the performance. It was more watchable and more coherent than we've seen from the national side for ages. Not just from the youngsters finding their feet at this level, but from most of the established players too. And I do agree that Wilshere is a real prospect, but my natural inclination is to stay away from the hype about our youngsters being world class when really they're extremely promising.

Anyway, with all the talk of Wilshere reminding us of Gazza in Italia 1990, was anyone else reminded of Hoddle's debut goal against Bulgaria (below) when Lampard side footed the winner?

1979 (November 22) England 2-Bulgaria 0 (EC Qualifier).avi - YouTube

Yeah, Hoddle, just yet another genius on early showing, that never quite made it to World-class player, hope Wilshere, can break the, Gulp: Hoddle, Brooking, Coppell, Wilkins, Robson, Waddle, Beardsley, Gascoine, Shearer, Beckham, Owen, Gerard, Lampard, Scholes, Cole, Rooney glass ceiling, of going from a good international player to great.

Lineker gets a pass, because he really did everything he could with his ability, but I'm not sure quality-wise he deserves to be called a great.

[Pothas]

Originally Posted by sledger

Tbf though, in all my life I can't remember a time when someone or other wasn't saying that Brazil weren't as good as they once were. Even in 2002 when they were actually really good, nobody really seemed to fancy them until they reached the semi-finals of the WC.

Yeah Brazil not been the 'proper' Brazil since 1982.

From what I understand they were a shambles going into 2002, really struggled in qualyfying so we will see what they can come up with in 2014.