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*Official* English Football Season 2012-13

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Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah I saw him on tv a few weeks ago, came off the bench. Had almost entirely forgotten his existence.
 
sledger

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I think your point on the whole is a good one actually, as there are plenty of Spanish players, particularly those who have moved over more recently, who are pretty underrated and do a good, or at least serviceable job for their teams. Jordi Gomez, Ivan Ramis and Javier Garrido immediately spring to mind.

Worth bearing in mind that there have also been plenty of Spanish players who've bombed pretty badly or been considerably underwhelming though. Luque, Josemi, Antonio Nunez, Xisco and Morientes etc...


Edit: Ha, beaten to it, by both of you.
 
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sledger

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Also Jose Reyes is probably deserving of an honourable mention here, though I wouldn't really consider him a flop, just a bit of an oik with an attitude problem.
 
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Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah but noticeably they are mostly a few years ago. Of those that have been bought in the last couple of years then only really Granero stands out as a big flop, and well that is QPR.
 
sledger

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Just remembered Marcelino as well, what a talent he was. Funny how all the crap Spaniards tend to be bought more or less exclusively by Newcastle and Liverpool...
 
Cevno

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Pothas said:
Can be no denying that La Liga has huge huge problems because of the finances of most of the clubs playing in it, I mean really if it was half decently run it would be the best league by an absolute mile. Would still say it is higher in quality, the average Spanish player from a lower half side is just much better than his English equivalent. Think the best indicator is the number of players that have come to England from outside Barcelona and R. Madrid and have been really outstanding in the Premiership and not just the obvious ones like Silva, Mata and Cazorla.
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Yeah, i agree the quality of average spanish player could be slightly higher (Very hard to tell, btw) but the players you are referencing are all players who have been doing well in La Liga and are also players losing whom makes the league weaker as a whole.

Has there been anyone like a Forlan or a Kanoute who was bombing there but was a huge success in the PL immediately?

You could look at the French market and there have been many successes from there too in the PL. It's a tough one to judge really.
 
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Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Agree that it is making the league weaker, which is why I said if it was run in anyway approaching competently it would be the best league by a mile. For now I think the sheer amont of talent that Spain produces (and South Americans) means that they are getting away with it.

Unfair on Forlan as well, have no doubt that if he had gone somewhere else in Europe first or even come to United a bit younger and slowly been introduced that he would have been a great success.
 
Uppercut

Uppercut

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It's usually more about adapting to the footballing culture than adapting to a drop in quality. Getting a decent run in the team is crucial too. You wouldn't say that Henry succeeded at Arsenal and Barca because the quality was lower than at Juventus, or that Pique was good for Barca because it's easier than playing for United.
 
Neil Pickup

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
Pothas said:
Yeah it is really hard to judge the relative quality of leagues anyway, I simply don't see enough German or Italian sides on a regular basis to have any idea on them so can only comment on Premiership and La Liga.

Can be no denying that La Liga has huge huge problems because of the finances of most of the clubs playing in it, I mean really if it was half decently run it would be the best league by an absolute mile. Would still say it is higher in quality, the average Spanish player from a lower half side is just much better than his English equivalent. Think the best indicator is the number of players that have come to England from outside Barcelona and R. Madrid and have been really outstanding in the Premiership and not just the obvious ones like Silva, Mata and Cazorla.
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Michu falls in that box too, but as has been said there are as many successes as failures and much is cultural/style-related as skill-based.

Personally, the Premier League feels like it's the worst it's been since the early-mid 90s. So many top division sides being dumped out of cups by lower divisions (which seem equally poor: witness the amount of everyone-beats-each-other going on in every other tier of the national leagues) and the limp surrender of all our sides in Europe...
 
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Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah I agree with the general point about players adapting to different leagues and teams but I do think it is noticebale how well imports from La Liga have done over the last couple of years, with what Swansea have done being the prime example.

Premiership is definetly a lot weaker than it has been although this is easily the best United side since Ronaldo left. I actually think the standards below the Premiership are pretty healthy. Can't say much about Championship and League 2 but while there are no standout sides in League 1 this year I think the overall standard has improved quite a bit in the last 10 years.
 
sledger

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I'm not exactly an expert, but I'd agree that the standard of the lower leagues is a lot better than it was a decade or so ago. You could say this for football - and probably most sports come to think of it - on the whole, but the general standard of athleticism and fitness strike me as being drastically better than it was around the turn of the century.
 
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