*Official* English Football Season 2012-13

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Created it ?

Almost all of the players were their already when he became manager and the signings he made like Chygrynsky and Ibra were ****. Yeah, he helped bring some players in and did a good job there but he hardly created the team. The same core was quite successful under Rijkaard too who created the team more than Guardiola.

Alves wasn't. Villa wasn't. Pique wasn't. Busquets and Pedro were B team players. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi had never played as well as they would do under Guardiola. And the core team was nowhere near as successful under Rijkaard. They finished 3rd the season before.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

Alves wasn't. Villa wasn't. Pique wasn't. Busquets and Pedro were B team players. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi had never played as well as they would do under Guardiola. And the core team was nowhere near as successful under Rijkaard. They finished 3rd the season before.

Messi and Iniesta were established in the team, and Xavi was playing equally well. You can hardly credit him for these 3. They were already on the upward curve and were the core of the team along with Puyol.

He then also got a fair bit of financial backing, which he didn't spend very well in the likes of Henrique, Ibra, Chygrynksy, Caceres, Hleb, Mascherano etc.. Alves has been good, while Villa and Sanchez have been OK and are hardly integral to the team.

Pedro, Busquets and Pique he deserves credit for, especially Busquets but that's not taking the credit for the whole team.

They were going through a transition period when he came there, he took that forward decently well with good financial backing but that's hardly creating the team for scratch. Players like Pique and Fabregas would have moved back there anyway, irrespective of manager too.

On the other hand when Rijkaard took over they were in complete mess, and not even that big of a draw. The whole team needed renovation with no youth products coming up either.

[sledger]

David Villa has been ok?

[Ikki]

Saying that Pep had the squad already is just a facile understanding of what he did and why Barca are so good. Pep was totally different to Rijkaard and his players were different under him too. There is a famous story where before taking over Barca he went to see Bielsa and where he got a lot of his ideas from. The intense pressing - from the front - and the incessant passing is all from that, and Pep. Rijkaard's team did not dominate sides like that - they were a great side for a time but they were not like that. A player like Ronaldinho may not even get into a Pep Guardiola side, but Rijkaard's was built around him.

[Cevno]

@Sledger

Yeah, for Barca which is why he's being linked with a move away for a while now. Had one good season for them but has not been essential to the team since.

Has 36 goals in 88 appearances. Granted he played wide for maybe half of those appearances but he had a better record at Valencia and they paid a big price for him (40 million euros).

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Ikki

Saying that Pep had the squad already is just a facile understanding of what he did and why Barca are so good. Pep was totally different to Rijkaard and his players were different under him too. There is a famous story where before taking over Barca he went to see Bielsa and where he got a lot of his ideas from. The intense pressing - from the front - and the incessant passing is all from that, and Pep. Rijkaard's team did not dominate sides like that - they were a great side for a time but they were not like that. A player like Ronaldinho may not even get into a Pep Guardiola side, but Rijkaard's was built around him.

I wasn't comparing the 2 teams tbh. But Rijkaard's team was very very good too.

And when he took over they were in a much bigger mess. They had finished 2nd, 4th, 4th and 6th the 4 seasons before it and had a old aging squad with many non performers. There weren't immediate youth products ready for first team action, and they were out of CL and not such a big draw.

Rijkard had to turn that around and build the structure upon which then Guardiola has build. And he had much less money and pulling power than Pep Guardiola too.

Pep has done a very good job, but he hasn't build this team like uppercut was saying either. The truth is somehwere between that and those saying "i could manage" those players.

[Cevno]

It's irrelevant to what i am saying, but Ronaldinho at his best would get into this team comfortably.

[Pothas]

So you are not comparing the two sides and yet Guardiola just inherited Rijkard's side?

Rijkard got plenty of investment, he was part of the whole Laporta thing which saw the arrival of Ronaldinho and others.

For Guardiola to get rid of Ronalhinho and Deco straight from the off signaled an imediate change which was not at all easy to pull off, look at what hapened to AVB at Chelsea.

[Pothas]

Also, how the hell you view Mascherano as a poor signing I have no idea.

[Neil Pickup]

Lolvilla.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Pothas

So you are not comparing the two sides and yet Guardiola just inherited Rijkard's side?

Rijkard got plenty of investment, he was part of the whole Laporta thing which saw the arrival of Ronaldinho and others.

For Guardiola to get rid of Ronalhinho and Deco straight from the off signaled an imediate change which was not at all easy to pull off, look at what hapened to AVB at Chelsea.

Basic core of the team, which was on the up. Plus also the enhanced pulling and money power.

Rijkard got decent investment but not as much as Guardiola did.

And as for the last part, yeah Guardiola did a terrific job but he didn't create the whole team from scratch. Also, he just crumbled when there was one blip mentally after a few seasons of success.

[Cevno]

Bradford have beaten more premier league teams than QPR this season.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Pothas

Also, how the hell you view Mascherano as a poor signing I have no idea.

Ah he wasn't meant to be there actually. He's been a decent squad player.

But he's still a example of very good investment in the squad.

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Bradford have beaten more premier league teams than QPR this season.

And Reading but lets not make too big a deal about that, wouldn't want to pick on fred would we

#Stillbitterabout1995

[L Trumper]

Originally Posted by sledger

David Villa has been ok?

He was brilliant at Valencia, no where near as good in Barca. He was great in second half of 10-11 season, apart from that not as great as everyone thought he would be. Also injuries didn't help.