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Thread: *Official* English Football Season 2012-13

  1. #1831
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    Created it ?

    Almost all of the players were their already when he became manager and the signings he made like Chygrynsky and Ibra were ****. Yeah, he helped bring some players in and did a good job there but he hardly created the team. The same core was quite successful under Rijkaard too who created the team more than Guardiola.
    Alves wasn't. Villa wasn't. Pique wasn't. Busquets and Pedro were B team players. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi had never played as well as they would do under Guardiola. And the core team was nowhere near as successful under Rijkaard. They finished 3rd the season before.

  2. #1832
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    Alves wasn't. Villa wasn't. Pique wasn't. Busquets and Pedro were B team players. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi had never played as well as they would do under Guardiola. And the core team was nowhere near as successful under Rijkaard. They finished 3rd the season before.
    Messi and Iniesta were established in the team, and Xavi was playing equally well. You can hardly credit him for these 3. They were already on the upward curve and were the core of the team along with Puyol.

    He then also got a fair bit of financial backing, which he didn't spend very well in the likes of Henrique, Ibra, Chygrynksy, Caceres, Hleb, Mascherano etc.. Alves has been good, while Villa and Sanchez have been OK and are hardly integral to the team.

    Pedro, Busquets and Pique he deserves credit for, especially Busquets but that's not taking the credit for the whole team.

    They were going through a transition period when he came there, he took that forward decently well with good financial backing but that's hardly creating the team for scratch. Players like Pique and Fabregas would have moved back there anyway, irrespective of manager too.

    On the other hand when Rijkaard took over they were in complete mess, and not even that big of a draw. The whole team needed renovation with no youth products coming up either.
    Last edited by Cevno; 08-01-2013 at 01:46 PM.

  3. #1833
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    David Villa has been ok?

  4. #1834
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Saying that Pep had the squad already is just a facile understanding of what he did and why Barca are so good. Pep was totally different to Rijkaard and his players were different under him too. There is a famous story where before taking over Barca he went to see Bielsa and where he got a lot of his ideas from. The intense pressing - from the front - and the incessant passing is all from that, and Pep. Rijkaard's team did not dominate sides like that - they were a great side for a time but they were not like that. A player like Ronaldinho may not even get into a Pep Guardiola side, but Rijkaard's was built around him.
    Last edited by Ikki; 08-01-2013 at 02:19 PM.
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  5. #1835
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    @Sledger

    Yeah, for Barca which is why he's being linked with a move away for a while now. Had one good season for them but has not been essential to the team since.

    Has 36 goals in 88 appearances. Granted he played wide for maybe half of those appearances but he had a better record at Valencia and they paid a big price for him (40 million euros).

  6. #1836
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Saying that Pep had the squad already is just a facile understanding of what he did and why Barca are so good. Pep was totally different to Rijkaard and his players were different under him too. There is a famous story where before taking over Barca he went to see Bielsa and where he got a lot of his ideas from. The intense pressing - from the front - and the incessant passing is all from that, and Pep. Rijkaard's team did not dominate sides like that - they were a great side for a time but they were not like that. A player like Ronaldinho may not even get into a Pep Guardiola side, but Rijkaard's was built around him.
    I wasn't comparing the 2 teams tbh. But Rijkaard's team was very very good too.

    And when he took over they were in a much bigger mess. They had finished 2nd, 4th, 4th and 6th the 4 seasons before it and had a old aging squad with many non performers. There weren't immediate youth products ready for first team action, and they were out of CL and not such a big draw.

    Rijkard had to turn that around and build the structure upon which then Guardiola has build. And he had much less money and pulling power than Pep Guardiola too.

    Pep has done a very good job, but he hasn't build this team like uppercut was saying either. The truth is somehwere between that and those saying "i could manage" those players.

  7. #1837
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    It's irrelevant to what i am saying, but Ronaldinho at his best would get into this team comfortably.

  8. #1838
    International Coach Pothas's Avatar
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    So you are not comparing the two sides and yet Guardiola just inherited Rijkard's side?

    Rijkard got plenty of investment, he was part of the whole Laporta thing which saw the arrival of Ronaldinho and others.

    For Guardiola to get rid of Ronalhinho and Deco straight from the off signaled an imediate change which was not at all easy to pull off, look at what hapened to AVB at Chelsea.

  9. #1839
    International Coach Pothas's Avatar
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    Also, how the hell you view Mascherano as a poor signing I have no idea.

  10. #1840
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  11. #1841
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    So you are not comparing the two sides and yet Guardiola just inherited Rijkard's side?

    Rijkard got plenty of investment, he was part of the whole Laporta thing which saw the arrival of Ronaldinho and others.

    For Guardiola to get rid of Ronalhinho and Deco straight from the off signaled an imediate change which was not at all easy to pull off, look at what hapened to AVB at Chelsea.
    Basic core of the team, which was on the up. Plus also the enhanced pulling and money power.

    Rijkard got decent investment but not as much as Guardiola did.

    And as for the last part, yeah Guardiola did a terrific job but he didn't create the whole team from scratch. Also, he just crumbled when there was one blip mentally after a few seasons of success.

  12. #1842
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Bradford have beaten more premier league teams than QPR this season.

  13. #1843
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    Also, how the hell you view Mascherano as a poor signing I have no idea.
    Ah he wasn't meant to be there actually. He's been a decent squad player.

    But he's still a example of very good investment in the squad.

  14. #1844
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    Bradford have beaten more premier league teams than QPR this season.
    And Reading but lets not make too big a deal about that, wouldn't want to pick on fred would we

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    RIP Craigos. A true CW legend. You will be missed.

  15. #1845
    State Regular L Trumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    David Villa has been ok?
    He was brilliant at Valencia, no where near as good in Barca. He was great in second half of 10-11 season, apart from that not as great as everyone thought he would be. Also injuries didn't help.



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