*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

[sledger]

 

[Jono]

#glorydays

 

[OverratedSanity]

Mania is about making money not being nice to the wrestlers though.

I mean the whole once in a lifetime thing sure, but Cena really needed that win back (IMO)

And he'd had the belt for 500 days. That in itself is incredible. Losing to taker at Mania should be an honour for any wrestler.

EDIT - granted though, they didn't have to do Rock-Cena II at Mania, and Cena-Punk had some unfinished business too.

Yeah, no way did Punk get a bad deal out of that whole chain of events.

Rock vs Cena II should have been triple threat with Punk as the third guy. It would've been an absolutely amazing program and WWE ****ed it up.

Also, you guys are missing the point here. Even when Punk was a long reigning champ, he felt he wasn't treated like one. He barely ever main-evented even non-Wrestlemania PPVs once he got the belt. Cena vs John ****ing Laurinaitis main evented over Cena vs Bryan ffs.

 

[King Pietersen]

 

[sledger]

Rock vs Cena II should have been triple threat with Punk as the third guy. It would've been an absolutely amazing program and WWE ****ed it up.

Hmmm, I'm not sure about this. It's not that I think it would have been bad. But when guys are as huge a draw as the Rock, the best way for them to be used is in a 1 on 1 contest/program imo. Adding extra guys into the mix (even if they're really good etc...) kind of dilutes the novelty of having a big star on the card. Imo anyway, I am sure plenty would disagree.

Also, you guys are missing the point here. Even when Punk was a long reigning champ, he felt he wasn't treated like one. He barely ever main-evented even non-Wrestlemania PPVs once he got the belt. Cena vs John ****ing Laurinaitis main evented over Cena vs Bryan ffs.

The Cena vs Johnny Ace match notwithstanding, I think this rather misrepresents things. It's simply not true to say he barely mainevented during that period. He mainevented plenty of times, and on the times he didn't the top spot was either filled with matches like the Royal Rumble, matches involving either Rock or Lesnar, or he was injured and not on the card at all.

 

[sledger]

In any event, the bloke held the most prestigious title in the company longer than anyone. People can say that titles and so on do not mean as much as they once did, but as a general rule, the E does not let anyone who's not the absolute top guy hold the WWE title. Saying you had a run with the World Heavyweight Championship is simply not the same as saying you held the WWE title.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hmmm, I'm not sure about this. It's not that I think it would have been bad. But when guys are as huge a draw as the Rock, the best way for them to be used is in a 1 on 1 contest/program imo. Adding extra guys into the mix (even if they're really good etc...) kind of dilutes the novelty of having a big star on the card. Imo anyway, I am sure plenty would disagree.

Agree with parts, but I don't think it would've dilutes it at all. Cena vs Rock absolutely did have a been there, done that feel to it. Wouldn't it have been ideal for Punk's massive reign to end at Wrestlemania with Cena winning it? But no, they had to keep it one on one because they wanted Cena to get his win over the rock back. That was the only reason. Had nothing to do with them being concerned about the quality of the feud being "diluted" because of Punk being added.

The Cena vs Johnny Ace match notwithstanding, I think this rather misrepresents things. It's simply not true to say he barely mainevented during that period. He mainevented plenty of times, and on the times he didn't the top spot was either filled with matches like the Royal Rumble, matches involving either Rock or Lesnar, or he was injured and not on the card at all.

Nope. Here are a few other examples of Punk not main eventing:

Elimination Chamber 2012: Cena vs ****ing Kane in an ambulance match main events over the chamber title match. Yeah. Great.
Extreme Rules 2012: Lesnar vs Cena main events. Fair enough, coz this was right after Brock's big return.
Over the Limit: Cena vs Johnny. Rubbish.
No Way out: Cena vs ****ing Big Show in a cage match main events over the title match. Awesome right?

 

[OverratedSanity]

In any event, the bloke held the most prestigious title in the company longer than anyone. People can say that titles and so on do not mean as much as they once did, but as a general rule, the E does not let anyone who's not the absolute top guy hold the WWE title. Saying you had a run with the World Heavyweight Championship is simply not the same as saying you held the WWE title.

Oh yeah absolutely I agree. Punk's a bit of a git obviously, but I can definitely see it from his point of view that despite having held the title for that long, his dream was always to main event a Mania. That was his personal goal which he set for himself. He didn't say this after leaving. He said this back in 2011. So yeah, it absolutely would've annoyed him.

 

[sledger]

Elimination Chamber 2012: Cena vs ****ing Kane in an ambulance match main events over the chamber title match. Yeah. Great.
Extreme Rules 2012: Lesnar vs Cena main events. Fair enough, coz this was right after Brock's big return.
Over the Limit: Cena vs Johnny. Rubbish.
No Way out: Cena vs ****ing Big Show in a cage match main events over the title match. Awesome right?

Yeah, this is kind of what I was saying though. That's basically just 3 matches where there was not an especially convincing reason. Not enough to get especially upset about imo.

 

[GIMH]

Agree with parts, but I don't think it would've dilutes it at all. Cena vs Rock absolutely did have a been there, done that feel to it. Wouldn't it have been ideal for Punk's massive reign to end at Wrestlemania with Cena winning it? But no, they had to keep it one on one because they wanted Cena to get his win over the rock back. That was the only reason. Had nothing to do with them being concerned about the quality of the feud being "diluted" because of Punk being added.

This is incorrect. They wanted to give Rock another title run. They'd had him set that goal on TV right after beating Cena the year before. It was always going to happen.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, this is kind of what I was saying though. That's basically just 3 matches where there was not an especially convincing reason. Not enough to get especially upset about imo.

HHH vs Lesnar at Summerslam too. Don't think that was worthy of the main event at all.

But yeah I get you. Still, though, it's definitely more non main event matches than you'd expect for the supposed top guy with the belt.

 

[sledger]

Agree with parts, but I don't think it would've dilutes it at all. Cena vs Rock absolutely did have a been there, done that feel to it. Wouldn't it have been ideal for Punk's massive reign to end at Wrestlemania with Cena winning it? But no, they had to keep it one on one because they wanted Cena to get his win over the rock back. That was the only reason. Had nothing to do with them being concerned about the quality of the feud being "diluted" because of Punk being added.

Yeah, but wanting Cena to get his revenge on the Rock was not exactly a poor reason for choosing to go the way they did. People might not like it, but it made sense from a logical/narrative sense.

And yeah, whether they were concerned about the whole thing being diluted by other people being added we'll never know. I just mentioned that way of looking at it as it's probably how I would have felt had they gone down that route.

 

[sledger]

HHH vs Lesnar at Summerslam too. Don't think that was worthy of the main event at all.

But yeah I get you. Still, though, it's definitely more non main event matches than you'd expect for the supposed top guy with the belt.

Well yeah, it probably is in objective terms. But given the context I don't think his main event/non-main event appearance ratio is as bad as it might appear on paper.

 

[OverratedSanity]

This is incorrect. They wanted to give Rock another title run. They'd had him set that goal on TV right after beating Cena the year before. It was always going to happen.

That doesn't mean Punk couldn't have been in the match at Mania. The whole reason people were disappointed was because Rock beat him in the rematch.

The ideal way for it to have been done, which almost everyone agrees, was to have Rock beat Punk at the PPV right before Mania (ie) Elimination Chamber. That way Punk invokes the rematch clause, Cena as the rumble winner gets a title shot and Rock as champ obviously is in the match as well. This is how it should have been done and if you disagree you're a jabroni.

 

[sledger]

That doesn't mean Punk couldn't have been in the match at Mania. The whole reason people were disappointed was because Rock beat him in the rematch.

The ideal way for it to have been done, which almost everyone agrees, was to have Rock beat Punk at the PPV right before Mania (ie) Elimination Chamber. That way Punk invokes the rematch clause, Cena as the rumble winner gets a title shot and Rock as champ obviously is in the match as well. This is how it should have been done and if you disagree you're a jabroni.

Haha, do they? Not being facetious, genuinely asking, as I've honestly not heard anyone say this before. Not an implausible or terrible suggestion by any means, but I don't remember anyone saying anything along these lines at the time.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Haha, do they? Not being facetious, genuinely asking, as I've honestly not heard anyone say this before. Not an implausible or terrible suggestion by any means, but I don't remember anyone saying anything along these lines at the time.

I was kidding, but in hindsight it was the perfect way to do it. Was just unnecessary to toss Punk aside.

 

[sledger]

I was kidding, but in hindsight it was the perfect way to do it. Was just unnecessary to toss Punk aside.

I see what you are getting at but still think it is disingenuous to say he was tossed aside. The guy worked 3 ppvs straight against 2 of the biggest pro-wrestlers ever. After which he had to take time off due to injury anyway.

 

[GIMH]

That doesn't mean Punk couldn't have been in the match at Mania. The whole reason people were disappointed was because Rock beat him in the rematch.

The ideal way for it to have been done, which almost everyone agrees, was to have Rock beat Punk at the PPV right before Mania (ie) Elimination Chamber. That way Punk invokes the rematch clause, Cena as the rumble winner gets a title shot and Rock as champ obviously is in the match as well. This is how it should have been done and if you disagree you're a jabroni.

In fairness I forgot they had that rematch.

I don't like triple threats, or whatever, main eventing Mania though. Personal preference.

 

[King Pietersen]

It's that time again. Lucha Underground is awesome. Like watching a mini action movie every week. Best Wrestling product on the market in my opinion. I love it.

 

[Jono]

I don't like triple threats, or whatever, main eventing Mania though. Personal preference.

Thoughts on Shawn forcing his way vs. Trips and thou who shall not be named in WM 20? Remember a lot of pissed off people at the time.