Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
I see that the spreadsheet that degreed that Garry Sobers can't bowl now has Gerrard as a superior footballer to Zidane. Bill Gates has much to answer for.
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Lionel Messi..
- Thread starter vcs
- Start date
vcs
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I find the demand that he needs to move to another league/club and "prove himself" ridiculous TBH. He should play at the club that gives him the best platform to showcase his talent as much as possible, and the one where he enjoys himself the most. If that is his current club and the one he's played at all his life, it's all the better.
A good WC performance somewhere down the line will definitely add a lot to his legacy though.
A good WC performance somewhere down the line will definitely add a lot to his legacy though.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Largely agree but he definitely needs to do it in a WC if he wants to be placed alongside the likes of Maradona, Pele, etc.
I mean, on a lower scale, Rooney is probably (definitely?) the best English player, but his WC performances have been lolbad. Until he addresses that, it will remain a black mark against his name.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Yeah, was gonna say what this **** said...
& Best generally gets left behind too, although perhaps for other reasons as well...
Magrat Garlick
Global Moderator
Naah, naming him just confirms you as a footballing anorak.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Best gets left out because he was a washed up alcoholic by the age of 27.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Is this an expectation on most great players, or a key factor when determining just how great they are? I find it interesting that not moving clubs is potentially seen as something that holds a player back. If that is the case, it's quite extraordinary. Different to many other sports you feel.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
No.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Agreed, and people talking about Messi and Ronaldo, need to take a perspective.
Both are ****ing incredible players, Wenger was asked if he was "potentially" one of the best of all time. Both need to do better in finals. That's not slagging them off, it's saying they're the only two that can push for greatness. We need more to be an ATG. Scoring 50 goals in one season just makes you Clive Allen. I don't get the moving clubs thing myself, if you find the best club for you early, why would you move?
These are the only two in World football that deserve this thought, this is why they're ****ing brilliant, but we need more I'm afraid
Both are ****ing incredible players, Wenger was asked if he was "potentially" one of the best of all time. Both need to do better in finals. That's not slagging them off, it's saying they're the only two that can push for greatness. We need more to be an ATG. Scoring 50 goals in one season just makes you Clive Allen. I don't get the moving clubs thing myself, if you find the best club for you early, why would you move?
These are the only two in World football that deserve this thought, this is why they're ****ing brilliant, but we need more I'm afraid
vcs
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Not for me. It sometimes happens that when players move for other reasons and dominate in more than one league (because they are ATGs), it is considered a proof of their versatility. I do believe though that if a player plays for a decent international side, he has to perform at international level as well to be an ATG.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
True, but that means they're judged on what they achieved at club level, which is fair enough. Messi's 'problem' is that, at this stage, he's judged to some extent by how he performed in SA last year. Possibly unfair - it wasn't his fault that the Argy manager was a complete knob - but I suspect he'll put matters right in 3 years time. As things stand, even last week's goal against RM, outstanding as it was, reminded me of similar efforts by Jimmy Greaves for Spurs against Newcastle & Man Utd in the mid1960's when he waltzed past a number of defenders before passing the ball into the net. And no-one's suggesting that Jimmy is an ATG.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
I actually don't think it'd be that problematic an assertion. But for an ill-timed injury in 1966 his career could've been crowned with the winning goal in a world cup final and he might be mentioned in the same breath as (say) Gerd Muller.
I suppose it depends how loosely or broadly we define "All time great", really.
I do agree with your main point tho; had Maradona missed out on 1986 he'd probably be remembered as someone who couldn't cut it on the highest stage of all, so WC performances do matter. Rooney definitely owes us one in 2014. Assuming we actually qualify, which is never a given.