Greatest Sportsman

[Agent Nationaux]

Originally Posted by Voltman

Jahangir isn't even the best sportsperson in his sport:



Heather McKay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for expanding my knowledge, but the thread is about the greatest sportman not sportsperson. And even then we can't really say she was better than Jahangir at squash.

[Smudge]

Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux

Thanks for expanding my knowledge, but the thread is about the greatest sportman not sportsperson..

I realise that. I can read, after all. My point was that you could argue he wasn't even the standout sportsperson in his own sport, so you're drawing a long bow to put him at the top of the greatest sportsman list.

[grecian]

Originally Posted by nightprowler10

The Wilt comment has more to do with my dispute where certain CWers in the past have maintained that Wilt was undeniably the best baller ever. But yeah agreed, basketball not being a dominant sport in most of the world (more than just one country though) doesn't help MJ's cause. But his dominance in the 90s did globalize the game.

That said, your point about height is silly, and something only someone not very knowledgeable on basketball would bring up. Yes, height is important, but speed, quickness, overall athleticism, and a high basketball IQ are much more important. Height matters little when you come up against an athletic guard with a 40" vertical leaping ability and great ball handling skills.

Okay, I'm not knowledgeable on height, so how tall was Jordan. Look I don't really care, I have no doubt that the best b-ballers are great athletes, I'm just saying that there are a number of people in all populations that can't make it in the sport because of height. All you said talking about my silliness hasn't disproved that, If that is silly fair enough, I'm a silly man, but it tends to be why I prefer soccer and cricket players, you can perform at all sizes.

Anyway still bradman

[TumTum]

Nadal owns Federer head to head, so you can't call him the greatest sportsman.

Schumacher's wins are mostly due to Ferrari, everybody knows car >>> driver in that sport.

For me it's Pele. Yes Bradman dominated his sport the most, however you must remember that the skill level of Football was far greater than the skill level of Cricket at the time (coz Football has been around for ages and followed by the whole world, whereas cricket was mostly in England and Australia and just starting to develop).

[Daemon]

Schumacher plays a sport that has such a short history. Not only that, a small handful of people in the world even get to attempt that 'sport'. You can't even know for sure that he is ridiculously talented with his driving if 99.99999999% of the world has never even attempted to drive a formula one car. (****ing hate F1 ftr)

[nightprowler10]

Originally Posted by grecian

Okay, I'm not knowledgeable on height, so how tall was Jordan. Look I don't really care, I have no doubt that the best b-ballers are great athletes, I'm just saying that there are a number of people in all populations that can't make it in the sport because of height. All you said talking about my silliness hasn't disproved that, If that is silly fair enough, I'm a silly man, but it tends to be why I prefer soccer and cricket players, you can perform at all sizes.

Anyway still bradman

Jordan was 6'6", bit tall for his position, but he was nowhere near as tall as many other dominant big men in the league, those who knew how to use their height and weight to their advantage, yet he dominated them all, at times using their height to his advantage. Not to mention in his younger days he could just jump over them.

Look I'm not arguing for MJ as the greatest sportsman ever, he's got plenty of competition as even the greatest basketball player ever, but you seem to disqualify or downplay his achievements and the sport itself by saying that people can't make it to the bigs if they've been short-changed, which is simply not true.

Its not much different than a casual observer pointing out how players who can run real fast and bowl the ball at 90+ mph have a clear advantage over spinners who only take a couple of steps to gain momentum. You'd tell him the same thing I'm telling you, you just don't know what you're talking about mate.

[duffer]

Originally Posted by nightprowler10

The Wilt comment has more to do with my dispute where certain CWers in the past have maintained that Wilt was undeniably the best baller ever. But yeah agreed, basketball not being a dominant sport in most of the world (more than just one country though) doesn't help MJ's cause. But his dominance in the 90s did globalize the game.

That said, your point about height is silly, and something only someone not very knowledgeable on basketball would bring up. Yes, height is important, but speed, quickness, overall athleticism, and a high basketball IQ are much more important. Height matters little when you come up against an athletic guard with a 40" vertical leaping ability and great ball handling skills.

Wilt's a ****ing fraud. Bill Russell and MJ are the only two in the conversation.

Basketball is definitely a global sport now. Moreso than cricket.

[duffer]

Originally Posted by grecian

Okay, I'm not knowledgeable on height, so how tall was Jordan. Look I don't really care, I have no doubt that the best b-ballers are great athletes, I'm just saying that there are a number of people in all populations that can't make it in the sport because of height. All you said talking about my silliness hasn't disproved that, If that is silly fair enough, I'm a silly man, but it tends to be why I prefer soccer and cricket players, you can perform at all sizes.

Anyway still bradman

Most people are "excluded" from top level sport by the fact that they don't have the talent level. Not seeing how that is any different than not having the height. The NBA is full of relatively undersized players who have long careers anyway.

It's not an exclusive sport anyway. All sizes play it and enjoy it relative to their own level.

[duffer]

Originally Posted by TumTum

Nadal owns Federer head to head, so you can't call him the greatest sportsman.

Schumacher's wins are mostly due to Ferrari, everybody knows car >>> driver in that sport.

For me it's Pele. Yes Bradman dominated his sport the most, however you must remember that the skill level of Football was far greater than the skill level of Cricket at the time (coz Football has been around for ages and followed by the whole world, whereas cricket was mostly in England and Australia and just starting to develop).

Maradona > Pele

[nightprowler10]

Originally Posted by duffer

Wilt's a ****ing fraud. Bill Russell and MJ are the only two in the conversation.

No arguments there. I might include Bird or Magic, but those two have by far the best case for GOAT.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Voltman

Jahangir isn't even the best sportsperson in his sport:



Heather McKay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can imagine that's probably quite the debate over at SquashWeb.net forums.

[99*]

Originally Posted by Daemon

Schumacher plays a sport that has such a short history. Not only that, a small handful of people in the world even get to attempt that 'sport'. You can't even know for sure that he is ridiculously talented with his driving if 99.99999999% of the world has never even attempted to drive a formula one car. (****ing hate F1 ftr)

That would be because 99.9% of people are **** at karting. Just like every piss-poor grade cricketer that never gets called up to play Test cricket. No useless karter is going to get called up to race in formula racing.

And anyway, Schumi isn't even the greatest F1 driver.

[vcs]

Originally Posted by TumTum

Nadal owns Federer head to head, so you can't call him the greatest sportsman.

Schumacher's wins are mostly due to Ferrari, everybody knows car >>> driver in that sport.

For me it's Pele. Yes Bradman dominated his sport the most, however you must remember that the skill level of Football was far greater than the skill level of Cricket at the time (coz Football has been around for ages and followed by the whole world, whereas cricket was mostly in England and Australia and just starting to develop).

That doesn't preclude him from being the greatest tennis player ever (not that I think he is, but for reasons other than the head to head), so no reason why it should preclude him from greatest sportsman ever.

[Daemon]

Originally Posted by 99*

That would be because 99.9% of people are **** at karting. Just like every piss-poor grade cricketer that never gets called up to play Test cricket. No useless karter is going to get called up to race in formula racing.

And anyway, Schumi isn't even the greatest F1 driver.

So the pre-requisite to launch your F1 career is being good in a go-kart?

[TumTum]

Originally Posted by vcs

That doesn't preclude him from being the greatest tennis player ever (not that I think he is, but for reasons other than the head to head), so no reason why it should preclude him from greatest sportsman ever.

But don't you think the "greatest sportsman" should be head and shoulders above his peers and at his best be better than anybody? Because even at Roger's best, he can't defeat a fit Nadal.