ITM Cup 2010

[Somerset]

Why does SBW deserve the right to just walk in to any team he so chooses? If he's not the best player then stiff ****, and I disagree with your depth argument as well. SBW is no different to any other player, name alone does not get you picked, I'd wager Umanga won't be a starting fixture much if at all this year. If i was SBW i would prefer to be with the best so i could learn from the best and if Canterbury are the best then that prvides the best opportunity for him to learn and then break into the Crusaders and possibly ABs...but honestly i don't think he has the skills to do it. he can learn alot at Canterbury but the depth in NZ rugby is such I can't see him finding a place in an AB squad in the centres or the wings...the likes of Nonu, Smith, Dagg, Maitland, Jane, Rokococo, Mils Muliianianianana, Sivivatu, Crotty, Kahui...Williams fighting an uphill battle tbh.

Thats the issue I've had with people and some of their comments on SBW. Hes publically stated that hes got ambitions of making the All Blacks, and with so many offshore players that sort of attitude should be promoted. But you can bank that Crotty, Fruean, Maitland, Slade, etc. (i.e. SBW's competition in the Canterbury backline) have similar attitudes, they're just not high profile or media seeking enough to broadcast them. Canterbury have to select their best line-up and as I mentioned earlier in the topic, that involves a midfield pairing that played together for a considerable part of the Super 14. If SBW's deemed good enough to break that combination and gain a starting spot at centre, good on him. But if he doesn't have the skill set of Crotty/Fruean for a position in the centres, I don't see the justification for selecting him in that spot simply because he is who he is.

 

[Smudge]

Personally I reckon he does have the skillset for the midfield - from what I've seen of his latter games for Toulon, he's got the full game. As long as he remembers to tackle with his arms...

 

[Hurricane]

Why does SBW deserve the right to just walk in to any team he so chooses? If he's not the best player then stiff ****, and I disagree with your depth argument as well. SBW is no different to any other player, name alone does not get you picked, I'd wager Umanga won't be a starting fixture much if at all this year. If i was SBW i would prefer to be with the best so i could learn from the best and if Canterbury are the best then that prvides the best opportunity for him to learn and then break into the Crusaders and possibly ABs...but honestly i don't think he has the skills to do it. he can learn alot at Canterbury but the depth in NZ rugby is such I can't see him finding a place in an AB squad in the centres or the wings...the likes of Nonu, Smith, Dagg, Maitland, Jane, Rokococo, Mils Muliianianianana, Sivivatu, Crotty, Kahui...Williams fighting an uphill battle tbh.

Doesn't deserve to walk into any team he chooses. Agreed. But he does deserve to walk into any team out of the 4 who were enticing him on to their teams.
If they didn't think he was good enough to start then why make a play for him. So they could strengthen their bench? That is unfair on him and unfair on NZ rugby. Let another team take him.
(UNLESS it can be shown that all 4 teams who were after him wanted him as a depth player. Then Cantabs are above board and I will stand down from this point )

"If i was SBW i would prefer to be with the best so i could learn from the best and if Canterbury are the best then that prvides the best opportunity "

Good point. And that is why he chose Cantabs I just hope that he knew he was going to be a depth player with them and that he made this trade off knowingly. Ie he needs to have gone into the Canterbury situation with the starting situation fully explained to him. And if he did then that is also good enough for me and I will concede it is fair.

 

[_Ed_]

If they didn't think he was good enough to start then why make a play for him. So they could strengthen their bench? That is unfair on him and unfair on NZ rugby.

But it's good for Canterbury. You can never have too much depth.

 

[ripper868]

I don't think there is/was any obligation for Canterbury to tell him whether he will start or not, Williams is another player thats all. If he does the yards in training and take his chances off the bench/in the reserves then he can force his way into the starting side...the same way Quade Cooper has done for the Wallabies, the same way every single player with aspirations of representing their country/zone/club/school has done.

Williams has skills, yes, but not a divine right to just rock up one year before the WC and demand a starting spot in the NPC/S15/AB's because of who he is.

I don't get how you think there is anything not 'above board' here, Williams knew full well who he'd be up against/playing with when he signed, if he wanted to join a weaker team where he'd be more likely to start he could have, nobody forced him to sign at Canterbury.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Taranaki vs Northland
Canterbury vs Hawkes Bay
Manawatu vs Southland
Counties Manukau vs Otago
Waikato vs Bay of Plenty
North Harbour vs Auckland
Wellington vs Tasman

 

[Smudge]

Taranaki vs Northland
Canterbury vs Hawkes Bay
Manawatu vs Southland
Counties Manukau vs Otago
Waikato vs Bay of Plenty
North Harbour vs Auckland
Wellington vs Tasman

 

[Somerset]

Taranaki
Canterbury
Southland
Otago
Waikato
Auckland
Wellington

Was tempted to take the BOP and even gave Hawkes Bay some consideration but decided to tip safely for week one anyway.

 

[Somerset]

Just read that, funnily enough, SBW probably would've started this weekend had he been able because Fruean's just been ruled out of their match with Hawkes Bay with a heart problem (which if I recall correctly was the same issue that kept him out of rugby for about two years), and Adam Whitelock's also injured. Stephen Brett's playing in the centres instead with Maitland shifting to fullback.

 

[Somerset]

Just a reminder that the competition starts tonight so you'll want to get your tips in within the next 5 hours.

 

[Somerset]

Great start for all six tipsters, getting the first game wrong...makes those, including myself, look a bit silly for building Taranaki up so much. I think both sides defended well and applied good pressure, and essentially those intercepts from Jayden Hayward were the difference. Funnily enough it was Northland's recruits like Bancroft and Budd that were crucial, and Taranaki's (Pisi, Taylor, Smith besides the first 20 minutes) that were strangely uninvolved.

 

[Hurricane]

23-23 Hawkes Bay Cantabs.

Only watched the last 20 minutes - so shouldn't comment too much. But impressed with Hawkes Bay never say die attitude at the end. Good defence by them as well.

 

[Somerset]

23-23 Hawkes Bay Cantabs.

Only watched the last 20 minutes - so shouldn't comment too much. But impressed with Hawkes Bay never say die attitude at the end. Good defence by them as well.

Yup they defended well after they let Maitland in for an easy try in the first five minutes, could easily have stolen the win though like Taranaki last night against Northland, they'll be annoyed to have given away a few easy tries - Shoemark's was a gift for Tu Umaga-Marshall after the chargedown. Not the greatest game in terms of flow, with plenty of penalties and handling errors evident, though I guess thats to be expected at the start of the season.

Planning on going to the game at Harbour Stadium on Sunday so hoping for some good rugby between Harbour and Auckland, and indeed that the weather's good for it!

 

[Somerset]

I think we (Otago) will go alright this year. Apparently, despite there being an awful lot of anger around former Reds coach Phil Mooney getting the coaching job ahead of David Latta a few months ago, Mooney has impressed everyone in Otago rugby circles and the NPC squad is being picked on form for the first time in years.

If we make the top seven, that'd be lovely. We just need to avoid injuries.

Well at least one of my predictions was accurate (given how many have gone against me), that I didn't rate this year's Otago squad, as they've just lost to Counties Manukau. Real credit to Counties for their counter attacking in the first half and tenacious defence in the second, particularly when they had a poor set piece and were subject to two yellow cards. Must be questions asked about Otago who barely looked interested in the first half, before having ample opportunity in the Counties' 22 in the second half to score points.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Otago were extremely poor tonight. They didn't seem to have any idea about ball retention at the breakdown. Counties were a little bit naughty round the fringes, but they were penalised for it and Otago couldn't take advantage to any extent at their numerical advantage. I don't think this shows that Counties have made any massive steps forward, rather that Otago may have regressed somewhat.

 

[Hurricane]

Watched parts of the Southland Manawatu game. Both teams had questionable defence and will not progress to the semi finals.

Edit - Southlands number 10 was very good.

 

[Somerset]

Watched parts of the Southland Manawatu game. Both teams had questionable defence and will not progress to the semi finals.

Edit - Southlands number 10 was very good.

Ironically I thought that James Wilson, the Southland flyhalf, would've played at 12 or even 15 as I'd expected Robbie Robinson to play at 10. Only caught the end of the game so won't comment on his performance today but I think in general Wilson's a quality player and its a shame he hasn't been available to display his talents more - injury prone from what I can recall.

 

[Smudge]

Well at least one of my predictions was accurate (given how many have gone against me), that I didn't rate this year's Otago squad, as they've just lost to Counties Manukau. Real credit to Counties for their counter attacking in the first half and tenacious defence in the second, particularly when they had a poor set piece and were subject to two yellow cards. Must be questions asked about Otago who barely looked interested in the first half, before having ample opportunity in the Counties' 22 in the second half to score points.

Sorry for having a keen opinion about my team.

 

[_Ed_]

Allowed myself to feel a bit of optimism when we got those early points on the board against Auckland today. That was misplaced.

36 unanswered points? Ouch.

 

[Somerset]

Round One Results and Standings:
BoyBrumby 4
Hurricane 4
Samuel_Vimes 4
Somerset 4
HeathDavisSpeed 3
Ripper868 2
Voltman 2

Round Two Fixtures:
Manawatu vs Canterbury
Taranaki vs Tasman
Hawkes Bay vs Bay of Plenty
Auckland vs Waikato
Southland vs Otago
Wellington vs Counties Manukau
Northland vs North Harbour