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Thread: English national football, where do we go from here?

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    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    English national football, where do we go from here?

    Will any of us see England lift the world cup in our life times? I quite doubt it. What can be done? We have such a brilliant side but for some reason we can't perform together. Could the fact that premiership stars are bought from abroad and not made from academies. Is it the press putting too much pressure on the side. Or are we just plain unlucky? Who knows.
    Last edited by cover drive man; 27-06-2010 at 09:57 AM.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Germany are arguably the best team in the tournament. Lol that England launch inquests after losing to a team they're infinitely worse than.

    Ferdinand looks a lot better in his absence too- much, much more important to the side than he was given credit for.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cover drive man View Post
    Will any of us see England lift the world cup in our life times. I quite doubt it. What can be done? We have such a brilliant side but for some reason we can't perform together. Could the fact that premiership stars are bought from abroad and not made from academies. Is it the press putting too much pressure on the side. Or are we just plain unlucky? Who knows.
    The problem with football is that talent is so hard to assess. There is no statistical help to at least give an idea as to what is going on. That leaves people free to make their own assessments. Who or what is a good player differs from person to person and few get it right and everyone makes mistakes.

    So the idea of 'brilliant' is purely opinion. There are players that I think are **** that people will swear are brilliant and probably vise versa. This is one of the reason talking football isnt fun.
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    The trouble is I don't see Capello getting rid of the old guard for Euro 2012 as his contract is to 2012 (assuming he doesn't decide to call it quits). So we may have the 30+ year olds carrying on, there aren't many obvious youngsters coming through anyway.
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    They failed to do homework against Germans. Allowed them huge amount of space to do their crisscrosspassing in front of the goal post. Defence is what let down England.

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    We just won the U17 Euros. Strip out the dead wood and start again.

    Lampard's 32, Gerrard's 30, James's 39, Terry's 29, Heskey's 32, SW-P's 28, Upson's 31. None will be there in 4 years' time. Year Zero. Tear it down and build from the ground up.

    Won't happen, but we can hope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    We just won the U17 Euros. Strip out the dead wood and start again.

    Lampard's 32, Gerrard's 30, James's 39, Terry's 29, Heskey's 32, SW-P's 28, Upson's 31. None will be there in 4 years' time. Year Zero. Tear it down and build from the ground up.

    Won't happen, but we can hope.
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    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    The problem with football is that talent is so hard to assess. There is no statistical help to at least give an idea as to what is going on. That leaves people free to make their own assessments. Who or what is a good player differs from person to person and few get it right and everyone makes mistakes.

    So the idea of 'brilliant' is purely opinion. There are players that I think are **** that people will swear are brilliant and probably vise versa. This is one of the reason talking football isnt fun.
    Hmm, oddly that's why I think it is fun, John Terry is **** BTW.

    Anyway, forget all your points CDM, we need to start coaching kids right at youth level, and I'm talking under 10s, we need to concentrate on keeping the ball, and being organised. Not on being physical and scoring by bullying. Brooking has been talking about it for years. British football is great to watch but it is based on direct football which doesn't work, when you get to any kind of decent level.

    people will say that the likes of Lampard, Gerrard and rooney work in Champions League, yet clever managers work their explosiveness and individuality behind foreign guys that can keep the ball and compliment them. Gerrard is nothing without Alonso, Lampard needs an Essien or Ballack..
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cover drive man View Post
    Will any of us see England lift the world cup in our life times? I quite doubt it. What can be done? We have such a brilliant side but for some reason we can't perform together. Could the fact that premiership stars are bought from abroad and not made from academies. Is it the press putting too much pressure on the side. Or are we just plain unlucky? Who knows.
    You don't.

    "Golden generation" achievements in the last 10 years:

    Euro 2000: group stages
    World Cup 2002: quarter finals
    Euro 2004: quarter finals
    World Cup 2006: quarter finals
    Euro 2008: Did not qualify
    World Cup 2010: 2nd round.

    This isn't just down to bad luck, or bad management, it's because at the end of the day England do not have the players to succeed at international level.

    Look at a squad like Spain. 16 of their 23 play at Barcelona, Real Madrid or Valencia, the top 3 sides in Spain. In addition to those 16, Cesc Fabregas, Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina are regulars at top sides outside of Spain. That's 19 of the 23 playing at a high level either domestically or abroad.

    Let's compare that with England: Chelsea, the EPL champions, have provided Ashley Cole, John Terry, Frank Lampard and Joe Cole. Manchester United provided Rooney and Carrick, Arsenal provided no-one. No England player plays for a top side abroad, and Liverpool, who have been regarded as one of the big 4, provided 3 players. That's a paltry 9 of the squad of 23 playing for the top clubs domestically - the starting lineup today contained the worst team in the division's goalkeeper, a defender from West Ham, and an average Tottenham striker. The majority of the England squad have precious little experience at the absolute highest level, and can't be considered key players for the top clubs domestically.

    You're kidding yourself on if you think that David James, Glenn Johnson, Matthew Upson, Gareth Barry, James Milner or Jermaine Defoe would get into the German side which bitch-slapped you today, never mind crap like Heskey, Crouch, Lennon, Carragher, or Wright-Phillips.

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    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    LOL GF, if you want to make a point say why the players are **** as as it is your post just agrees with him...

    Anyway. Capello considering his future. Watch this space
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    You don't.

    "Golden generation" achievements in the last 10 years:

    Euro 2000: group stages
    World Cup 2002: quarter finals
    Euro 2004: quarter finals
    World Cup 2006: quarter finals
    Euro 2008: Did not qualify
    World Cup 2010: 2nd round.

    This isn't just down to bad luck, or bad management, it's because at the end of the day England do not have the players to succeed at international level.

    Look at a squad like Spain. 16 of their 23 play at Barcelona, Real Madrid or Valencia, the top 3 sides in Spain. In addition to those 16, Cesc Fabregas, Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina are regulars at top sides outside of Spain. That's 19 of the 23 playing at a high level either domestically or abroad.

    Let's compare that with England: Chelsea, the EPL champions, have provided Ashley Cole, John Terry, Frank Lampard and Joe Cole. Manchester United provided Rooney and Carrick, Arsenal provided no-one. No England player plays for a top side abroad, and Liverpool, who have been regarded as one of the big 4, provided 3 players. That's a paltry 9 of the squad of 23 playing for the top clubs domestically - the starting lineup today contained the worst team in the division's goalkeeper, a defender from West Ham, and an average Tottenham striker. The majority of the England squad have precious little experience at the absolute highest level, and can't be considered key players for the top clubs domestically.

    You're kidding yourself on if you think that David James, Glenn Johnson, Matthew Upson, Gareth Barry, James Milner or Jermaine Defoe would get into the German side which bitch-slapped you today, never mind crap like Heskey, Crouch, Lennon, Carragher, or Wright-Phillips.
    Excellent post Cal. EPL is one of the topmost leagues in the world in quality as well as in money and following, but somehow this has not translated into a better English team.

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    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    You're kidding yourself on if you think that David James, Glenn Johnson, Matthew Upson, Gareth Barry, James Milner or Jermaine Defoe would get into the German side which bitch-slapped you today, never mind crap like Heskey, Crouch, Lennon, Carragher, or Wright-Phillips.
    I get your point, but still, the English squad is much better than what they show internationally. If you were to go through many of the players in Germany they aren't playing for Real Madrid or anything. Even USA or teams like Australia seem to gel together much better than England's players. I can't really understand why this team hasn't been successful and I don't buy for one second that their players (their top ones especially) aren't world-class or good enough.

    In Capello they got a good coach but I am not sure he suits England TBF. He is a no-nonsense guy which is good for ego-checking but I am not sure the way his teams play football suit England. I think a coach like Bielsa or Hiddink would do far better with these players.
    Last edited by Ikki; 27-06-2010 at 11:59 AM.
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    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Ignore the Jock, apparently individuals should be judged by which club they play for, this is the same guy who champions Rangers players, a club that would struggle to win our league. twelve years and counting since Scotland qualified for anything and they get more and more bitter every day, look forward to their response sitting at home in two years time, ruled by the English, nothing but a pathetic colony

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    LOL GF, if you want to make a point say why the players are **** as as it is your post just agrees with him...

    Anyway. Capello considering his future. Watch this space
    The fact that over half of the England squad aren't good enough to get a game for the top sides, either in England or abroad, tells its own story.

    England players lack the technique and tactical intelligence to succeed at the highest level, and have done for years.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Ignore the Jock, apparently individuals should be judged by which club they play for, this is the same guy who champions Rangers players, a club that would struggle to win our league. twelve years and counting since Scotland qualified for anything and they get more and more bitter every day, look forward to their response sitting at home in two years time, ruled by the English, nothing but a pathetic colony
    The difference between us and you is that we know we're **** and don't delude ourselves into thinking that this will be our year once every 4 years.

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