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The MMA/UFC Thread

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
No, he said Diaz was more efficient with his energy. That's the only concession he made. He said in the post fight that he felt he was the better fighter, and that he was winning both rounds but ultimately he wasn't efficient with his energy, called out the three spin kicks he threw as being stupid and having taken more out of him than his opponent.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I completely disagree, Diaz was taking shots through both rounds that no fighter should take through the middle considering his reach advantage over McGregor. If you look at his face at the end of the fight, that tells you the story of how frequently McGregor bounced shots off his face.

Diaz takes the much better shot and has much better conditioning (always has, the Diaz brothers are freaks with their cardio) and was able to out last McGregor, land something meaningful (one of his few meaningful punches too) and ultimately his finishing skills are superb, the moment it went to ground he was in a league above McGregor

But standing? McGregor was way more effective at the boxing basics. Any time the smaller fighter gets in so frequently on the bigger fighter, you have to say that.
You sound like a Pacquiao supporter.

Very few of McCregor's punches were effective. They were always glancing or coming off the gloves or moving backwards. Diaz' boxing is miles, miles better than McCregor and he actually lands effective punches.

Re: the cuts. Diaz' face always gets cut up, he has skin that cuts extremely easily. My skin is the same. It's not a good indication of boxing ability.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I do agree however that McCregor underestimated how much that extra 10kg would slow him down.

It's really something that his trainers should have schooled him on but given his conditioning coach is a con artist that would be expecting too much.
 

cnerd123

likes this
So I just rewatched the fight.

I definitely give McGregor round 1. He landed more solid hits, cut Diaz open (although thats par for the course for the Diazs), and had better control of the Octagon. 10-9. Having said that, there were plenty of punches he threw out that Nate evaded, and he didn't land any kicks effectively (or maybe just 1).

Round 2 started fairly even, till Nate rocked him with that right hand halfway through. McG never really recovered. Nate just swooped in and lit him up, then came the panicked take down and the submission.

McG did look gassed by the end, but taking a hard hit does that to you. I wouldn't necessarily put it down to him not being able to adjust to the new weight.

Don't think McG would have won a pure boxing bout. He relies a lot on his kicks to maintain ring control, and as he showed last night he doesn't have as tough a chin as Nate. Not to mention he tends to fight with his hands down a lot. I don't think it really hurt him in this particular fight -Nate only started landing punches frequently after he was rocked- but McG did throw out a lot more strikes and kept hitting Nate's arms and gloves, and over a longer boxing match that wasted energy would be significant.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
McCregor is a good fighter, but If you're fighting a guy who's a better boxer, with more reach, and is better on the ground, you have to come in with some type of strategy. It seems kinda obvious to me that the only way McCregor wins this fight is by incessant, repetitive leg kicks, and then maybe a finish once he's brought the hands down. I was astonished that he only attempted like 1 or 2 the whole fight. Was weird.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Yea, I was really expecting him to target Diaz's front leg a lot more. He was doing pretty well with the boxing -he landed some nice uppercuts whenever Diaz lunged forward and got a few left straights in- but that was a missed opportunity. Usually McG has good fight IQ, so I guess he was looking for the knock-out early rather than planning for a 5-round fight.
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
You sound like a Pacquiao supporter.

Very few of McCregor's punches were effective. They were always glancing or coming off the gloves or moving backwards. Diaz' boxing is miles, miles better than McCregor and he actually lands effective punches.

Re: the cuts. Diaz' face always gets cut up, he has skin that cuts extremely easily. My skin is the same. It's not a good indication of boxing ability.
Why do people here have such arrogant ****y personas? You're saying I'm a Pacquaio supporter somehow because I point out that Diaz, despite being much bigger, with more length, still let the much smaller fighter land a number of shots from the inside and outside, was not the best boxer in the ring but was the more durable fighter. I personally hate Pacquaio and think he's an overrated PED user. There is no comparison to Pacquaio in this fight, it would be like trying to say Diaz was a Hopkins/Mayweather level boxer which is laughable :laugh:

There was two factors in the fight, Diaz could take a great punch and McGregor wasn't conditioned well enough at this weight to go five rounds. Neither of those factors relate to Diaz being better technically to McGregor, McGregor showed far more technical skill being able to get on the inside and land uppercuts, while using feints and steps to get in position to land from the outside with straight punches despite his reach disadvantage. There is an intangible aspect to stand up that can't be taught, and those intangible aspects include durability and endurance. You would never confuse David Tua as being the better "boxer" than most of the opponents he beat, but he had intangible capabilities that the bulk of his opponents couldn't overcome.

But usually these conversations go the way where you start throwing insults, I respond and I get warned/banned because I'm the newcomer, so peace out. You're entitled to your opinions but I strongly disagree with them and the factual evidence of significant strikes landed also disagrees. 8-)
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
IMO some are confusing boxing skills with MMA striking ability

McGregor has fast hands and elite power in his left cross for a fighter in his UFC weight category

However, holding chin up whilst throwing punches from the waist is a sure-fire recipe for getting knocked out in boxing
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Why do people here have such arrogant ****y personas? You're saying I'm a Pacquaio supporter somehow because I point out that Diaz, despite being much bigger, with more length, still let the much smaller fighter land a number of shots from the inside and outside, was not the best boxer in the ring but was the more durable fighter. I personally hate Pacquaio and think he's an overrated PED user. There is no comparison to Pacquaio in this fight, it would be like trying to say Diaz was a Hopkins/Mayweather level boxer which is laughable :laugh:

There was two factors in the fight, Diaz could take a great punch and McGregor wasn't conditioned well enough at this weight to go five rounds. Neither of those factors relate to Diaz being better technically to McGregor, McGregor showed far more technical skill being able to get on the inside and land uppercuts, while using feints and steps to get in position to land from the outside with straight punches despite his reach disadvantage. There is an intangible aspect to stand up that can't be taught, and those intangible aspects include durability and endurance. You would never confuse David Tua as being the better "boxer" than most of the opponents he beat, but he had intangible capabilities that the bulk of his opponents couldn't overcome.

But usually these conversations go the way where you start throwing insults, I respond and I get warned/banned because I'm the newcomer, so peace out. You're entitled to your opinions but I strongly disagree with them and the factual evidence of significant strikes landed also disagrees. 8-)
David Tua actually was a better boxer than most of the opponents he beat. And it's weird you're using him to illustrate your point given he almost always gave up the reach advantage.

Boxing isn't about looking good. Anyone can throw feints and uppercuts, that's not a technical skill. Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit. Technical skill is about throwing punches without leaving yourself open to a counter punch. Keeping your jaw protected, making sure your hands don't drop after a punch, no matter how tired you are. McCregor has below average abilities to defend himself. His hands are low, and his chin (literally his chin) is sticking right out, asking to be hit. And no, durability and endurance aren't "intangibles". Part of boxing is about not expending huge amounts of energy with your punches and making sure you're absorbing your opponents pressure safely. McCregor is awful at this.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
However, holding chin up whilst throwing punches from the waist is a sure-fire recipe for getting knocked out in boxing
This this this.

That's less about boxing and more about arrogance.
no it's straight up boxing 101. Even the dudes with low hands have developed techniques that defend their jaw, like the Mayweather shoulder-roll.
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
David Tua actually was a better boxer than most of the opponents he beat. And it's weird you're using him to illustrate your point given he almost always gave up the reach advantage.

Boxing isn't about looking good. Anyone can throw feints and uppercuts, that's not a technical skill. Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit. Technical skill is about throwing punches without leaving yourself open to a counter punch. Keeping your jaw protected, making sure your hands don't drop after a punch, no matter how tired you are. McCregor has below average abilities to defend himself. His hands are low, and his chin (literally his chin) is sticking right out, asking to be hit. And no, durability and endurance aren't "intangibles". Part of boxing is about not expending huge amounts of energy with your punches and making sure you're absorbing your opponents pressure safely. McCregor is awful at this.
David Tua was not a better boxer than Michael Moorer, nor John Ruiz, nor Chris Byrd, nor Ike Ibeabuchi, nor Hasim Rahman. I'm not even going to argue this point with you because it really isn't something worth arguing, it would be like comparing Mark Waugh and Steve Waugh technically and looking only at the output and results. That is where intangibles come in, i.e Miguel Cotto losing to Antonio Margarito; are you going to tell me that Cotto wasn't the better boxer in that fight? Tua won most of his marquee fights through landing a leaping left hook, he had great power and great handspeed for his size but he wasn't a technical master, go look at Lennox Lewis bounce countless right hands off the top of his head, or Hasim Rahman when he had success against him.

McGregor slipped and evaded pretty much everything Diaz threw in Round 1. He then got caught once in Round 2 and his arrogance was such that instead of going into his shell and seeking to weather the storm, he started talking ****, sticking his chin out and pretending he wasn't hurt. That again is not a lack of boxing skill, it's a lack of brainpower.

Argument over, not worth getting banned about :laugh: Go insult someone else.
 
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social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
This this this.



no it's straight up boxing 101. Even the dudes with low hands have developed techniques that defend their jaw, like the Mayweather shoulder-roll.
And when you look at Mayweather's defensive technique, he also:

a. uses lateral movement to move constantly away from his opponent's power side (e.g. he would be moving to his left to avoid McGregor's left hand);

b. has his chin buried into his collar-bone/upper chest/shoulder;

c. has one upper arm locked to his side to avoid body shots with the forearm protecting the sternum, etc and

d. has the other hand protecting the other side of his face but with the arm ****ed to counter-punch

Added to that he is/was one of the fittest guys on the planet and had the reflexes of a snake

He was literally the prime example of hit without being hit whilst McGregor is all hit
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
IMO some are confusing boxing skills with MMA striking ability

McGregor has fast hands and elite power in his left cross for a fighter in his UFC weight category

However, holding chin up whilst throwing punches from the waist is a sure-fire recipe for getting knocked out in boxing
If you think Diaz has ever been a knock out puncher and that it wasn't systemic of the level of exhaustion Conor had carrying 10kg extra than he's used to, I've got a deed for the moon I'd like you to buy.
 

cpr

International Coach
He was swinging wildly the whole fight which has worked for him in the past because the guys he fought couldn't take a punch. He wasn't landing in round two. He ran out of energy, got tagged himself and the fight was over.
.
McGregor did an interview with BT sport post fight where he basically said the same - the bigger man needs cleaner hits to knock him down, and he needed better shot selection, as other fighters can't take it when he loads up on them but Diaz could
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
And when you look at Mayweather's defensive technique, he also:

a. uses lateral movement to move constantly away from his opponent's power side (e.g. he would be moving to his left to avoid McGregor's left hand);

b. has his chin buried into his collar-bone/upper chest/shoulder;

c. has one upper arm locked to his side to avoid body shots with the forearm protecting the sternum, etc and

d. has the other hand protecting the other side of his face but with the arm ****ed to counter-punch

Added to that he is/was one of the fittest guys on the planet and had the reflexes of a snake

He was literally the prime example of hit without being hit whilst McGregor is all hit
You seem to know your boxing, I'll give you credit there although you've missed a couple of things that Mayweather did such as using his glove to shield the eyes of his opponent while ripping to the body, or using his elbows against his opponents throat whenever in a clinch, or collapsing at the waist to move under punches, or as you point out, using the shoulder roll technique to ultimately get inside on his opponents without taking damage.

But you miss vital points about tucking your chin into your collar bone, and having the shoulder roll technique, and having a side on stance like Mayweather uses.

a. The shoulder roll technique will completely obfuscate your vision to see any kick being thrown, you would be picked apart by leg kicks and head kicks at will by your opponent
b. Having a sidewards stance is great in boxing, because you're able to move and pivot off of either foot and you don't have to worry about having your front leg kicked out from you, or being swept for a take down
c. Moving constantly away from the power punch of a boxer leaves you further open to what I've mentioned in Point A, leg kicks. Distance is a completely different beast in kick boxing as to what it is in boxing.
d. Mayweather always fought absolutely defensively, McGregor always fights absolutely aggressively.
e. No boxer in the history of boxing could lay claim to being 38 and still not being hit against elite level fighters, not even Pernell Whittaker, Floyd was one of a kind, so comparing his boxing skills against a UFC fighter isn't a comparison worth making, it would be like asking Floyd to compare his dirty boxing against a jujitsu clinch, no point.

If you're saying Diaz exhibits any skill in the same level as Floyd on defense, I'd point you to the fight stats that had him taking 20 significant strikes in one round, Floyd doesn't take that many in five fights. If you're saying that McGregor should adopt a shoulder roll technique, keep his chin tucked and his power hand tucked onto his chin too then you don't understand enough about kick boxing to know why almost all fighting stances in kick sports are much more open, fluid and do not have you tucking your chin as much.

Full credit to Diaz, where he was unbelievable was how quickly he ripped through McGregor on the ground when McGregor foolishly took him down, he busted him up quickly with ground and pound and the moment an opportunity was there he sunk in a deep choke, that was brilliant ju jitsu and somewhere Diaz has been amazing for years, somewhere he should actually fight more as his stand up is no where near as good as his ground game. Diaz is a good dirty boxer, but he's not a good boxer. He throws arm punches that leave himself open for countering and as I've pointed out, having that many shots landed on your skull isn't usually a recipe to winning any fight unless you go back to intangibles - durability and endurance, i.e Antonio Margarito beating Miguel Cotto in their first fight.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If you think Diaz has ever been a knock out puncher and that it wasn't systemic of the level of exhaustion Conor had carrying 10kg extra than he's used to, I've got a deed for the moon I'd like you to buy.
I never said that Diaz was a big puncher

He caught McGregor because of the latter's almost non-existent defensive technique

BTW, the fight was held in a category that represents Conor's everyday walking around weight and the guy literally has to starve himself to make featherweight so the weight excuse is just that: an excuse

If anyone was at a disadvantage, it was Diaz as he had no training camp (the guy was training for a triathlon when he got the call for a fight taking place in 12 days time and didn't spar a round beforehand) and he also fought in a weight category higher than normal (he is a mid-sized lightweight normally)
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Like I said, Tua was a better boxer than most of the guys he beat. He won bronze at the olympics ffs. Genuine boxer with insane handspeed and obvious power, and pretty good defense. None of those guys were better boxers at the time he beat them. Maybe Moorer. Of course Lennox was, he's one of the best of all time, hence why he schooled Tua.

I haven't insulted you. I've simply stated my opinion, which is something most boxing experts would agree with. McCregor is not a particularly good boxer, and Diaz is definitely better and would 100% win in a pure boxing match.
 
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social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
You seem to know your boxing, I'll give you credit there although you've missed a couple of things that Mayweather did such as using his glove to shield the eyes of his opponent while ripping to the body, or using his elbows against his opponents throat whenever in a clinch, or collapsing at the waist to move under punches, or as you point out, using the shoulder roll technique to ultimately get inside on his opponents without taking damage.

But you miss vital points about tucking your chin into your collar bone, and having the shoulder roll technique, and having a side on stance like Mayweather uses.

a. The shoulder roll technique will completely obfuscate your vision to see any kick being thrown, you would be picked apart by leg kicks and head kicks at will by your opponent
b. Having a sidewards stance is great in boxing, because you're able to move and pivot off of either foot and you don't have to worry about having your front leg kicked out from you, or being swept for a take down
c. Moving constantly away from the power punch of a boxer leaves you further open to what I've mentioned in Point A, leg kicks. Distance is a completely different beast in kick boxing as to what it is in boxing.
d. Mayweather always fought absolutely defensively, McGregor always fights absolutely aggressively.
e. No boxer in the history of boxing could lay claim to being 38 and still not being hit against elite level fighters, not even Pernell Whittaker, Floyd was one of a kind, so comparing his boxing skills against a UFC fighter isn't a comparison worth making, it would be like asking Floyd to compare his dirty boxing against a jujitsu clinch, no point.

If you're saying Diaz exhibits any skill in the same level as Floyd on defense, I'd point you to the fight stats that had him taking 20 significant strikes in one round, Floyd doesn't take that many in five fights. If you're saying that McGregor should adopt a shoulder roll technique, keep his chin tucked and his power hand tucked onto his chin too then you don't understand enough about kick boxing to know why almost all fighting stances in kick sports are much more open, fluid and do not have you tucking your chin as much.

Full credit to Diaz, where he was unbelievable was how quickly he ripped through McGregor on the ground when McGregor foolishly took him down, he busted him up quickly with ground and pound and the moment an opportunity was there he sunk in a deep choke, that was brilliant ju jitsu and somewhere Diaz has been amazing for years, somewhere he should actually fight more as his stand up is no where near as good as his ground game. Diaz is a good dirty boxer, but he's not a good boxer. He throws arm punches that leave himself open for countering and as I've pointed out, having that many shots landed on your skull isn't usually a recipe to winning any fight unless you go back to intangibles - durability and endurance, i.e Antonio Margarito beating Miguel Cotto in their first fight.
MMA and boxing are totally different sports requiring very different defensive techniques

However, the point is that McGregor paid scant attention to defence and got tagged as a result
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
I never said that Diaz was a big puncher

He caught McGregor because of the latter's almost non-existent defensive technique

BTW, the fight was held in a category that represents Conor's everyday walking around weight and the guy literally has to starve himself to make featherweight so the weight excuse is just that: an excuse

If anyone was at a disadvantage, it was Diaz as he had no training camp (the guy was training for a triathlon when he got the call for a fight taking place in 12 days time and didn't spar a round beforehand) and he also fought in a weight category higher than normal (he is a mid-sized lightweight normally)
You don't seem to understand the difference between "walk around" weight and "fight weight" which again means I can't really argue with you on this. Why do you think Floyd never fought any real opposition at 154 or 160 if weight makes no difference? Also McGregor rehydrates to 155ish when he's fighting at 145lbs, he doesn't walk around at 170lbs, he actually had to pack additional weight on for this fight that he normally wouldn't even carry walk weight.

And you really need to go watch Round 1 to see how many shots Diaz threw and Conor slipped. It was an energy level thing more than anything else, if you don't get that, I can't help you, it's not worth my time to try.

And the "McGregor got tagged" - Diaz got tagged 15 times, he just took it better. McGregor got hit once and was on queer street, a combination of exhaustion + not being used to taking a 170lb punch.

What you're asking effectively, since you love your Mayweather example, is that Mayweather within 3 months of fighting Pacquaio at 147, decides then he's going to face Andre Ward at 168 and expect that the fight will follow similar realities to Floyd at 147.

Even if you look at Floyd at 130-135 where he was a fight finisher, versus him at 147 where he was feather fisted, that should tell you what 5KG difference does, let alone 10KG.
 
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