You know what really grinds my sporting gears?

[masterblaster]

Originally Posted by Jono

The Premier League is really made of four teams. The whole thing is a shambles.

Considering that Blackburn have been the only other team to win the English Premier League in recent times, I'd say you are right.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Clapo

Nah

Haven't seen too many Wigan jerseys on the back of people outside the UK tbh.

[Johnners]

It's the same for just about any sporting league thats world renowned though.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by masterblaster

Considering that Blackburn have been the only other team to win the English Premier League in recent times, I'd say you are right.

TBF when Blackburn won the title the "big 4" hadn't really crystallised yet. In the early days other teams used to finish in the top four fairly regularly. When ManUre won the first EPL in 1992/3 their main rivals were Villa & Norwich City (!!) were leading at Xmas and ultimately finished third. It wasn't really until 97/98 when the big 4 started to dominate proceedings.

[Goughy]

Originally Posted by Jono

The Premier League is really made of four teams. The whole thing is a shambles.

Yeah. The Prem and football, in general, both bother me.

I was born and raised on football, my first shoes were boots, my old man was an ex-(low level) pro, my old man worked at a League club when I grew up and I played on the club's pitch everyday, it was the first sport I coached for a living and I was not a bad player during my prime (built like Heskey, speed like Owen, guile of Le Tis, mental strength of Marco Boogers, injury proneness of Anderton, tackling ability of Paul Scholes and temprament of Bellamy. )

However, now I dont watch the sport unless Im in the pub having a beer and dont even check the results after a weekend.

Despite the quality of play improving, I just have no interest. I dont like the way the game is played, I dont relate to the players, I dont 'get' the culture and I hate talking football as 99% of football fans know **** all about the game.

I keep my head down and ignore it unless Im playing (which I do 3-4 times a week) or coaching.

Football is a massive part of who I am but I dont care for it any more. Like divorcing someone you gave the best 20 years of your life to.

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by Jono

Haven't seen too many Wigan jerseys on the back of people outside the UK tbh.

Don't really see that that has any relevance whatsoever tbh. Wigan are the worst supported club in the Prem, because they are a traditionally small club (smaller even than my mighty whites) but all clubs in the Prem get good attendances, games are usually sold out, and games like Sunderland V Fulham attract a lot of viewers on a Sunday afternoon. It might only be the big four that get followed overseas, but that's kind of natural. In England, there are 92 full-time professional clubs (well probably a few more actually as most conference clubs seem to be these days). Even the smallest of these clubs would generally get 2,000 people to a game, sure that's a relatively low figure, but the amount of people who watch non-top four clubs in England far outnumbers those who do.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

Don't really see that that has any relevance whatsoever tbh. Wigan are the worst supported club in the Prem, because they are a traditionally small club (smaller even than my mighty whites) but all clubs in the Prem get good attendances, games are usually sold out, and games like Sunderland V Fulham attract a lot of viewers on a Sunday afternoon. It might only be the big four that get followed overseas, but that's kind of natural. In England, there are 92 full-time professional clubs (well probably a few more actually as most conference clubs seem to be these days). Even the smallest of these clubs would generally get 2,000 people to a game, sure that's a relatively low figure, but the amount of people who watch non-top four clubs in England far outnumbers those who do.

I deadset chose Wigan at random, and had no idea they were the smallest club.

I'll replace them with Ipswich. Actually, let's go with Hull or Portsmouth.

And you're missing the point. Its not about how many people in England watch, because there is a huge support base for their own clubs. That's great.

I've argued about this countless times on these boards and EPL and soccer fans in general get amazingly defensive about this. Let me ask, what are the chances of Portsmouth winning the EPL in the next decade?

The ads on ESPN-Star (in Asia) for the EPL actually only have the "big four" club logos on the ad, and consists of four guys (one of them a famous Bollywood actor) kicking the ball around, each wearing one of the big four's jerseys.

EDIT: Just found the ad here.

That ad signifies everything wrong with the EPL.

Its ****. Equalise the league FFS. And this goes for the Spanish and Italian leagues too. Because I understand that if one league has a salary cap all the money hungry gun players will go to other leagues. Hence... its a shambles.

Enjoy one of Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal or Man U winning the league in 2008/09. I'm sure it'll be great when one of them win it in 2009/10 as well.

[Langeveldt]

Originally Posted by Goughy

Yeah. The Prem and football, in general, both bother me.

I was born and raised on football, my first shoes were boots, my old man was an ex-(low level) pro, my old man worked at a League club when I grew up and I played on the club's pitch everyday, it was the first sport I coached for a living and I was not a bad player during my prime (built like Heskey, speed like Owen, guile of Le Tis, mental strength of Marco Boogers, injury proneness of Anderton, tackling ability Paul Scholes and temprament of Bellamy. )

However, now I dont watch the sport unless Im in the pub having a beer and dont even check the results after a weekend.

Despite the quality of play improving, I just have no interest. I dont like the way the game is played, I dont relate to the players, I dont 'get' the culture and I hate talking football as 99% of football fans know **** all about the game.

I keep my head down and ignore it unless Im playing (which I do 3-4 times a week) or coaching.

Football is a massive part of who I am but I dont care for it any more. Like divorcing someone you gave the best 20 years of your life to.

Whilst continuing to put the ball in the back of the net 3-4 times a week

[Goughy]

Originally Posted by Langeveldt

Whilst continuing to put the ball in the back of the net 3-4 times a week

true.

I hadnt thought of it like that. Divorced friends with benefits

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Clapo

It's the same for just about any sporting league thats world renowned though.

Really? I'm not even an NBA fan, but check out the last 10 NBA championship finals:

2007-08 Boston Celtics def Los Angeles Lakers
2006-07 San Antonio Spurs def Cleveland Cavaliers
2005-06 Miami Heat def Dallas Mavericks
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs def Detroit Pistons
2003-04 Detroit Pistons def Los Angeles Lakers
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs def New Jersey Nets
2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers def New Jersey Nets
2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers def Philadelphia 76ers
1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers def Indiana Pacers
1998-99 San Antonio Spurs def New York Knicks

I count 11 different teams making the Championship finals over the last decade.

Let's try NFL now.

January 31, 1999 Denver Broncos (2) 34–19 Atlanta Falcons
January 30, 2000 St. Louis Rams 23–16 Tennessee Titansc[
January 28, 2001 Baltimore Ravensc[›] 34–7 New York Giants
February 3, 2002 New England Patriots 20–17 St. Louis Rams
January 26, 2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 48–21 Oakland Raiders
February 1, 2004 New England Patriots (2) 32–29 Carolina Panthers
February 6, 2005 New England Patriots (3) 24–21 Philadelphia Eagles
February 5, 2006 Pittsburgh Steelers (5)c[›] 21–10 Seattle Seahawks
February 4, 2007 Indianapolis Colts (2) 29–17 Chicago Bears
February 3, 2008 New York Giants (3)c[›] 17–14 New England Patriots

I count 15 different teams there!

I'd love to know the "top 2" of the EPL over the last decade, and how many teams have made it in that period.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Jono

I'd love to know the "top 2" of the EPL over the last decade, and how many teams have made it in that period.

I can tell you now: three. Liverpool haven't actually finished top 2 in the EPL yet.

[Jono]

That's pretty horrible. People should see this not as a criticism of the sport of soccer, but the leagues that are set up.

I always use the AFL as an example as a great equalising league, but the NBA and NFL (as shown above) are far more variable with the amount of teams that are successful than the EPL. Its a serious issue that almost all EPL soccer fans seems to be willing to just ignore. Its like they're in denial.

I'm a Richmond supporter in the AFL and have seen my team make the last 4 in the AFL twice in my lifetime. One of the worst performing teams over the last decade. Yet I still know there is always hope of my team actually winning a premiership simply because I've seen so many teams go from **** to awesome, due to the equalising nature of our league. Take Hawthorn the recent champions. Were near the bottom of the barrel 4-5 years ago, and are now premiers!

If I was born in the UK as a Portsmouth supporter, I'd actually seriously think I'll never see my team make the top 4 unless some random rich guy buys my club or something.

[Samuel_Vimes]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

I can tell you now: three. Liverpool haven't actually finished top 2 in the EPL yet.

2002 disagrees.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Jono

That's pretty horrible. People should see this not as a criticism of the sport of soccer, but the leagues that are set up.

I always use the AFL as an example as a great equalising league, but the NBA and NFL (as shown above) are far more variable with the amount of teams that are successful than the EPL. Its a serious issue that almost all EPL soccer fans seems to be willing to just ignore. Its like they're in denial.

I'm a Richmond supporter in the AFL and have seen my team make the last 4 in the AFL twice in my lifetime. One of the worst performing teams over the last decade. Yet I still know there is always hope of my team actually winning a premiership simply because I've seen so many teams go from **** to awesome, due to the equalising nature of our league. Take Hawthorn the recent champions. Were near the bottom of the barrel 4-5 years ago, and are now premiers!

If I was born in the UK as a Portsmouth supporter, I'd actually seriously think I'll never see my team make the top 4 unless some random rich guy buys my club or something.

No, I agree with you. It's not ideal & I speak as a supporter of one of the "big 4".

You pre-empt the obvious counter argument, which is that if a cap was introduced all the players would bugger off to Spain or Italy where there isn't one and the EPL would lose its pre-eminence.

The argument is quality or equality, basically.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Samuel_Vimes

2002 disagrees.

****. Quite right.

ManUre were in title race longer tho.