View Poll Results: Is relegation a good thing in sport?

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  • Yes

    18 85.71%
  • No

    3 14.29%
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Thread: Relegation: good thing or bad thing?

  1. #346
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Back then, as I understand, clubs had a different structure in as much as they didn't have the power to vote on their future. Since then clubs have restructured and most are owned by the members. Fitzroy was a little different because they couldn't meet their obligations in the near future so had to merge, which was a more amicable outcome than South Melbourne faced, who were literally obliterated.


    If someone with no knowledge of the game is willing to learn the sport I will have no hesitation in encouraging. I help coach a team in Wollongong ffs, most of them have absolutely no experience in footy.

    With people who merely wish to call it Gay FL because theyre ignorant, I will not web bother. It's their loss.
    Who's done that here though?
    WWCC - Loyaulte Mi Lie
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  2. #347
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Who's done that here though?
    People used to, but as Kyle got a job and is less active and Fitzy left, most Aussies like AFL here.
    5-0

    RIP Craig Walsh (Craig) 1985-2012

    Proudly supporting the #2 cricketer of all time.

  3. #348
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    People used to, but as Kyle got a job and is less active and Fitzy left, most Aussies like AFL here.
    Ah I see.

  4. #349
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    People used to, but as Kyle got a job and is less active and Fitzy left, most Aussies like AFL here.
    Dire. Getting a job should make you MORE active.
    Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

    Too many bones, not enough CASH!!

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  5. #350
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    By any objective measure, leagues with a salary cap are no more or less competitive than those that have none. There's just no empirical evidence to suggest that it helps unless you cherry-pick examples.

    There's an argument for having one on principle but the liberal in me finds it rather offensive. Something's strange about benchy being the guy pushing the idea.
    Depends on your definition of competitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    French League winners:

    1993: Marseille
    1994: Paris St Germain
    1995: Nantes
    1996: Auxerre
    1997: Monaco
    1998: Lens
    1999: Bordeaux
    2000: Monaco
    2001: Nantes
    2002: Lyon
    2003: Lyon
    2004: Lyon
    2005: Lyon
    2006: Lyon
    2007: Lyon
    2008: Lyon
    2009: Bordeaux
    2010: Marseille
    2011: Lille

    Excluding Lyon's dominance, that's a pretty competitive league without salary capping.
    "So, if you take away all the scores that Bradman made a hundred, he only averages..."

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    So basically the AFL gets away with treating its players like **** because they're the only show in town?
    Not really, there's very few players who, if they want to leave a club, don't get their way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Rubbish. What would you consider "cherry picking examples"? What would you consider objective measures?

    In the last 12 years the NRL has had 10 different winners of the competition, with all but 3 of the teams in the league making a grand final. IIRC the AFL is less even, but there's still been far greater diversity of teams challenging for top honors than any european football league you'd like to mention.
    I think that since Port Adelaide came into the competition (1997), every team has made the top 4 in the AFL.

  6. #351
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Super League teams are effectively franchises now. It did away with promotion and relegation three years ago.

    The SL franchises are only awarded for three years tho, so teams from outside aren't totally cut adrift. Widnes (traditionally one of the big teams) have been awarded one for 2012, actually so at least one of the current SL teams will miss out. Probably the Crusaders, if there's any justice. Worthwhile experiment taking the pro game to Wales, but badly handled from the outset and they're currently in administration.

    Be interesting to know anyone's thoughts on a draft versus not having one too. Obviously one of the big differences between the way the NRL & AFL are set up. I'm instinctively anti, it seems to remove the possibility of kids coming through the ranks at a club (fans over here at least generally have greater soft spots for their team's own products), but I suppose it's a way of ensuring an even spread of talent.
    There is no "own product" now, the clubs in the early-90s didn't want to use their resources on U/19 (and then U/18) football. Also stops tapping up of young kids from different places/states, like you see in Rugby League, which I personally find a bit undesirable.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    At the end of the day, in football, success breeds success. Obviously there are teams with manufactured wealth, but teams like Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal have more money because over the history of football they have made themselves into winners.

    Liverpool had money in the 70s and 80s, and United in the 90s and 00s but both clubs' success was built on much more than that. It's off-hand to put it all down to money. The main reason English football has seen few title winners in the global era is because of United, who built their success on a solid youth policy and earned their money from having a bigger fanbase than any other club, even after 26 years without a title. To equalise the wealth of clubs like these and Arsenal would be preposterous when it is money they have spent over a century acquiring in many ways - and the foundation of it is sporting. People all around the world don't support these clubs because they're rich but because they're successful. The foundation of their wealth is success. The success obviously breeds further wealth., so it is a cycle. But they've earned that right.

    Your Chelsea/Man City is obviously different. I wouldn't actually be surprised if regulations were brought in sooner rather than later that made a billionaire owner less of an advantage. Dunno what, though.
    Think that's really the same in any sport, and at most levels. Clubs keep those successful people around in other roles, and provide that knowledge and expectation of success which is infectious.
    Last edited by vic_orthdox; 27-05-2011 at 04:49 PM.

  7. #352
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Eh why did you quote me
    Quote Originally Posted by DingDong View Post
    gimh has now surpassed richard as the greatest cw member ever imo

    RIP Craigos. A true CW legend. You will be missed.

  8. #353
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Eh why did you quote me
    You saying that "in football, success breeds success". I'm saying that it's not just something apparent in football, it relates to any sport and at different levels of it, amateur or professional.

    Maybe it's a little more exacerbated in football because it allows you to produce more money, through revenue and higher valued players, but just pointing out that it's not solely a football phenomenon.

    EDIT: realised that I hadn't made my edit when you probably posted that. Accidentally hit submit before I wrote about your post that I quoted.
    Last edited by vic_orthdox; 27-05-2011 at 05:15 PM.

  9. #354
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    A hard fought, one point win to the Sydney franchise today

  10. #355
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Was full of the South Melbourne spirit I thought. Like the 'Bloods' of old.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.

  11. #356
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    You saying that "in football, success breeds success". I'm saying that it's not just something apparent in football, it relates to any sport and at different levels of it, amateur or professional.

    Maybe it's a little more exacerbated in football because it allows you to produce more money, through revenue and higher valued players, but just pointing out that it's not solely a football phenomenon.

    EDIT: realised that I hadn't made my edit when you probably posted that. Accidentally hit submit before I wrote about your post that I quoted.
    Ah yeah, fair point. I definitely didn't intend to suggest that wasn't the case in other sports, but I think that there is a basic misunderstanding from some people of how Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal have come to be successful clubs.

    They were the biggest clubs in England long before money was as prevalent as it is now.
    Last edited by GIMH; 28-05-2011 at 01:30 AM.

  12. #357
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Was full of the South Melbourne spirit I thought. Like the 'Bloods' of old.
    What or who are the Bloods?

  13. #358
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    "So, if you take away all the scores that Bradman made a hundred, he only averages..."
    lol, wasn't my point. My point was that the French league has been very competitive without any need for a salary cap or any of the other bollocks benchy thinks football needs.

    Even Lyon's dominance is a prime example of why money doesn't matter as much as you might think. Lyon were dominant because for a 7 year period they spent their money in a much smarter fashion than anyone else in France. Lyon historically are neither big nor rich.

  14. #359
    U19 Vice-Captain
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    Definite yes for promotion and relegation in most circumstances.

    Definite no for wage cap - at least in English football where it didn't particularly add much when it was the rule. However, definitely needs financial regulation of some sort. UEFA's ideas look good on paper but suspect they'll be easy to circumnavigate. Even if they work I don't suppose it will reverse the gentrification of the game.

  15. #360
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Worth pointing out that 7 of Barcelona's starting lineup are products of their youth system (would have been 8 if Puyol had started).

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