View Poll Results: Is relegation a good thing in sport?

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  • Yes

    18 85.71%
  • No

    3 14.29%
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Thread: Relegation: good thing or bad thing?

  1. #166
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnanden View Post
    And until a few years ago, I hated that there was no salary cap. Maybe it's successful beause the bigger sides are like the 'villians', and seeing an underdog get up is so good. Hmm.
    IMO forced "equality" is utterly dire. Yes, unfortunately that means that titles tend to be reserved for the rich, but that's happened throughout history, it's not a new phenomenon. You'll get periods where the rich clubs are badly managed and win **** all (Man Utd in the 70s and 80s, Liverpool in the 90s and 00s) and smaller upstarts can upset the applecart by being well managed (Aberdeen and Dundee Utd in the early 80s). If you force "equality" on a league, it essentially becomes a crapshoot, which is less interesting IMO. You need the Goliaths that everyone hates to make a league interesting.

  2. #167
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Hate it, and hate competitions with no salary cap.

    When teams have no chance of starting on a level playing field, it's not sport - it's business.
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  3. #168
    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    Surely, without relegation, promotion would be impossible in leagues?
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  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    IMO forced "equality" is utterly dire. Yes, unfortunately that means that titles tend to be reserved for the rich, but that's happened throughout history, it's not a new phenomenon. You'll get periods where the rich clubs are badly managed and win **** all (Man Utd in the 70s and 80s, Liverpool in the 90s and 00s) and smaller upstarts can upset the applecart by being well managed (Aberdeen and Dundee Utd in the early 80s). If you force "equality" on a league, it essentially becomes a crapshoot, which is less interesting IMO. You need the Goliaths that everyone hates to make a league interesting.
    You honestly think only unequal competition breeds hatred?? Wow.


  5. #170
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Hate it, and hate competitions with no salary cap.

    When teams have no chance of starting on a level playing field, it's not sport - it's business.
    Surely being against relegation is in contradiction with the 'level playing field' mentality, though. Because a closed shop of twelve, sixteen, whatever - that sounds like a business to me.
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  6. #171
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Surely being against relegation is in contradiction with the 'level playing field' mentality, though. Because a closed shop of twelve, sixteen, whatever - that sounds like a business to me.
    How does that sound like business? Since when has business been closed and not open to everyone?

    I understand that relegation is a neccesary evil with unequal competition, but that's just because the system is so ****ed up that it needs to occur because it's boring seeing the exact same team at the arse end of the ladder. May as well have different names down there.

  7. #172
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Hate it, and hate competitions with no salary cap.

    When teams have no chance of starting on a level playing field, it's not sport - it's business.
    I can see the arguments for salary caps & franchises and against promotion/relegations for sure, but I'd actually say the AFL & NRL are run more like businesses.

    The two new AFL franchises seem to have been created specifically to "tap into new markets". As one understands there's no great AFL culture in either the Gold Coast or West Sydney, but because they're more populous than a "real" AFL state like Tasmania they get the teams. The strategy is more from a business model (nothing wrong with that) than the haphazard nature of promotions and relegations.

    When Blackpool were promoted, for instance, they had a ground that held about 10,000 people and were yet another side from an area with over half a dozen Prem teams already.
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  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    I can see the arguments for salary caps & franchises and against promotion/relegations for sure, but I'd actually say the AFL & NRL are run more like businesses.

    The two new AFL franchises seem to have been created specifically to "tap into new markets". As one understands there's no great AFL culture in either the Gold Coast or West Sydney, but because they're more populous than a "real" AFL state like Tasmania they get the teams. The strategy is more from a business model (nothing wrong with that) than the haphazard nature of promotions and relegations.

    When Blackpool were promoted, for instance, they had a ground that held about 10,000 people and were yet another side from an area with over half a dozen Prem teams already.
    No, the brand is run as a business, and I'd have no problem with the EPL's governing body running as a business, but the sport is not run like a business.

    On the AFL expansion, the edict of the AFL, as in the governing body, is to grow the game as much as possible. The two biggest markets which are untapped by the AFL were the GC and Western Sydney.
    Last edited by benchmark00; 25-05-2011 at 10:14 AM.

  9. #174
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    The business anaolgy is meant to be taken like this:

    Say for example we have a competition between Google, Microsoft and 14 other backyard software companies... then we get really excited and surprised when Google and Microsoft return the highest profits. That's exactly what it's like with the EPL.

  10. #175
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    How does that sound like business? Since when has business been closed and not open to everyone?

    I understand that relegation is a neccesary evil with unequal competition, but that's just because the system is so ****ed up that it needs to occur because it's boring seeing the exact same team at the arse end of the ladder. May as well have different names down there.
    Well I guess what I'm saying is that you've got your franchises, which are selected and retained accordingly, and they are going to be the ones that will make the league most money.

    Man U could be relegated next season. It would be bad for the Prem as a business but ultimately the teams that play in the Prem are decided by their number of points.

    Now of course, Man U won't relegated, sadly it is very unlikely I'll ever live to see such a glorious occasion. And the point that their points tally is duly influenced by their bank balance is taken.

    That being said, relegation isn't there because the system is '****ed up'. Relegation has been about in English football for about a century, it existed back when titles genuinely were shared out and teams like Wolves, Burnley, Derby and Forest won them. To say relegation is there to address inequality is way off.

    It also is worth mentioning that there are about as many people attending games from the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tiers combined as there is the Prem, week to week. You get rid of relegation and you rob a massive part of the country of the opportunity to see their team reach the top flight. If anyone can tell me why that would be a good thing, I'm all ears.

  11. #176
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Hadn't seen your other posts before I replied btw benchy

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Well I guess what I'm saying is that you've got your franchises, which are selected and retained accordingly, and they are going to be the ones that will make the league most money.

    Man U could be relegated next season. It would be bad for the Prem as a business but ultimately the teams that play in the Prem are decided by their number of points.

    Now of course, Man U won't relegated, sadly it is very unlikely I'll ever live to see such a glorious occasion. And the point that their points tally is duly influenced by their bank balance is taken.

    That being said, relegation isn't there because the system is '****ed up'. Relegation has been about in English football for about a century, it existed back when titles genuinely were shared out and teams like Wolves, Burnley, Derby and Forest won them. To say relegation is there to address inequality is way off.

    It also is worth mentioning that there are about as many people attending games from the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tiers combined as there is the Prem, week to week. You get rid of relegation and you rob a massive part of the country of the opportunity to see their team reach the top flight. If anyone can tell me why that would be a good thing, I'm all ears.
    But if you have an equal competition and one year a team finishes in the bottom three, gets relegated, yet next year has a team capable of winning the 'top flight' but is unable to because they had one bad season (could be down to injuries or whatever) then you're robbing the people of the best team winning the premiership, and cheapening the team who did win it.

  13. #178
    You'll Never Walk Alone Nate's Avatar
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    While I might not like the clubs, I thoroughly enjoy watching such a high quality of football with Arsenal, Man United, etc, that wouldn't be possible with a salary cap.
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  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnanden View Post
    While I might not like the clubs, I thoroughly enjoy watching such a high quality of football with Arsenal, Man United, etc, that wouldn't be possible with a salary cap.
    How wouldnt it be?? It just wouldnt be the same teams playing that high quality all the time.

  15. #180
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    The business anaolgy is meant to be taken like this:

    Say for example we have a competition between Google, Microsoft and 14 other backyard software companies... then we get really excited and surprised when Google and Microsoft return the highest profits. That's exactly what it's like with the EPL.
    Yeah, I don't hold the Prem up as a model for fair competiton, but at least the fans of any team in the English pyramid can, in theory, aspire to seeing their team in the Prem.

    If you were a fan of Fitzroy, say, you're pretty much buggered, aren't you? There's no way the AFL will sanction another Melbourne team, so what do they do?

    Another problem I have with AFL is the draft system. It actually rewards mediocrity. To use your analogy it'd be like given ArsewipeSoft the first choice of Computer Science graduates from MiT.

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