How do you rate Thierry Henry aka Chief Poseur as he is known in Durham ?

[TT Boy]

Head and shoulders the best player in Premiership history. Ruud is probably a close second in the striker’s stakes but it is pretty easy to equate Henry’s greatness from the rest. Goal scoring wise, Under Cole, Fowler and Shearer, all had tremendous records whilst in pomp and Shearer had pretty much everything but what was the standard of the Premiership like (at the time), pretty awful wasn’t it.

Simply evident in how English clubs did not bother to trouble the great European powers and when those players had the chance to impress in Europe, Shearer did sweet FA (other than get humbled by part time Swedes and then for the Toon send a elbow into Fabio Cannavaro’s face). Eric Cantona is exactly the same but on a more grand scale, anyone care to remember what Man Utd were like in Europe when Cantona was around, I do and they were **** and he was one of the most obvious examples of that. Great players for their club no doubt but in the grand scheme of it all they can’t compare to what Henry has done and achieved.

 

[roseboy64]

You missed out Mr Hankey

Nothing to do with Man Utd. He's the second highest all time Premiership goals scorer. Not all of those were with United.

 

[roseboy64]

Head and shoulders the best player in Premiership history. Ruud is probably a close second in the striker’s stakes but it is pretty easy to equate Henry’s greatness from the rest. Goal scoring wise, Under Cole, Fowler and Shearer, all had tremendous records whilst in pomp and Shearer had pretty much everything but what was the standard of the Premiership like (at the time), pretty awful wasn’t it.

Simply evident in how English clubs did not bother to trouble the great European powers and when those players had the chance to impress in Europe, Shearer did sweet FA (other than get humbled by part time Swedes and then for the Toon send a elbow into Fabio Cannavaro’s face). Eric Cantona is exactly the same but on a more grand scale, anyone care to remember what Man Utd were like in Europe when Cantona was around, I do and they were **** and he was one of the most obvious examples of that. Great players for their club no doubt but in the grand scheme of it all they can’t compare to what Henry has done and achieved.

What has Henry done in Europe to usurp Cantona and Shearer? He only started playing well when he came to England.

 

[marc71178]

Nothing to do with Man Utd. He's the second highest all time Premiership goals scorer. Not all of those were with United.

No, but you're the only person to mention him - funny that...

What has Henry done in Europe to usurp Cantona and Shearer? He only started playing well when he came to England.

Sorry, but what exactly did Cantona OR Shearer do in Europe?!

Although what relevance that has to rating someone in the premierleague I don't know anyway...

 

[TT Boy]

Although what relevance that has to rating someone in the premierleague I don't know anyway...

Well not a lot considering Juan Veron was excellent for Man Utd in Europe but to truly decipher how good an individual player is in context, European success or goal scoring pedigree must be taken into consideration. If not then Michael Ricketts, Kevin Philips and Marcus Stewart were far better 'players' considering the clubs they were so unfortunate to play for.

Henry and Ruud doing it in Europe set themselves aside from the likes of Alan Shearer and the fact remains that the Premiership has improved leaps and bounds since the Blackburn days. Are team which won the league would now struggle to compete for a European place, Stuart Ripley and Jason Wilcox are just two names of players which in all honesty were not particularly good but decent enough to triumph and nearly receive England call ups, whilst being cruelly exposed in Europe (as was the whole team) as nothing more than good league players.

 

[TT Boy]

What has Henry done in Europe to usurp Cantona and Shearer?

There's 35 and still counting reasons why Henry is a different class to those above names. How many Champions League hat-tricks away from home did Alan Shearer score or King Eric, what was their success and progress like in Europe? Took their team to the final did they?

 

[Matteh]

Cantona wasn't an especially great player when he played in France. Moves to early 90s England and walks over everyone.

Would it be safe to say that the effects of the post Heysel ban had a massive influence on the quality of the early Premiership?

 

[GIMH]

Cantona wasn't an especially great player when he played in France. Moves to early 90s England and walks over everyone.

Would it be safe to say that the effects of the post Heysel ban had a massive influence on the quality of the early Premiership?

Undoubtedly

 

[Tom Halsey]

Simply evident in how English clubs did not bother to trouble the great European powers and when those players had the chance to impress in Europe, Shearer did sweet FA (other than get humbled by part time Swedes and then for the Toon send a elbow into Fabio Cannavaro’s face). Eric Cantona is exactly the same but on a more grand scale, anyone care to remember what Man Utd were like in Europe when Cantona was around, I do and they were **** and he was one of the most obvious examples of that. Great players for their club no doubt but in the grand scheme of it all they can’t compare to what Henry has done and achieved.

That's a pretty nonsensical argument IMO. The Prem wasn't particularly weak in the early '90s, we just didn't get much success in Europe because of one rule.

The foreign players rule saw to the fact that we were **** in Europe, and when they took that away, we reached the semis in Cantona's last season, going out to the evntual winners.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Cantona wasn't an especially great player when he played in France. Moves to early 90s England and walks over everyone.

He did reasonably well Internationally considering he wasn't an out-and-out goalscorer, goals per game ratio similar to Henry (IIRC slightly better, playing in a much worse side).

And if you lot are basing your whole argument around goals (which is what it looks like) Cantona's goals per game ratio was not much different in France than in England.

 

[Matteh]

Well he was a bit of a knob when he played in France (the whole reason he moved to England iirc), could have had a much greater impact on the game at an international level and so it smacks of an amount of wasted potential.

 

[Scaly piscine]

There's 35 and still counting reasons why Henry is a different class to those above names. How many Champions League hat-tricks away from home did Alan Shearer score or King Eric, what was their success and progress like in Europe? Took their team to the final did they?

The defence took the CDMs to the Champions League final, chief poseur wasted two chances for them to win it.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Well he was a bit of a knob when he played in France (the whole reason he moved to England iirc), could have had a much greater impact on the game at an international level and so it smacks of an amount of wasted potential.

Whether it smacks of wasted potential or not, Cantona's goalscoring record Internationally is better than Henry's while playing in a much worse side, and not being an out-and-out goalscorer.

 

[marc71178]

Since SP seems to have missed this earlier - think I'll reproduce it and await his comments:

Just as an exercise I thought I'd look at a "better" forward in his games aginst the other 3 sides in the big 4 and the local rivals.

Interesting reading:

vs. Chelsea - 3 goals in 9
vs. Arsenal - 2 goals in 11
vs. Liverpool - 3 goals in 11
vs. Citeh - 5 goals in 7

Overall 11 goals in 38 games, or approximately 1 every 3 and a half games.

I did note 2 of the Liverpool goals were penalties, but couldn't be bothered to go back and look at the other games to check on others.

Good job he got to play a relatively weak local rival to make the ratio look that healthy really...

 

[Scaly piscine]

What about cup games? What about games in Europe? What about international games?

 

[33/3from3.3]

The bestplayer in the premiership, bar Gerrard.

 

[marc71178]

What about cup games? What about games in Europe? What about international games?

Any games he's played have been included there.

The very thing you've so often had a go at Henry for it's proven that he's far ahead of the only genuine contender - strange that...

 

[Matteh]

What about cup games? What about games in Europe? What about international games?

Who cares frankly? You need to re-read the top option of the poll.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Who cares frankly? You need to re-read the top option of the poll.

We've already established he isn't because there are 15+ people I can think of off the top of my head that are better. You need to actually bother to read the rest of the thread in the first place.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Any games he's played have been included there.

The very thing you've so often had a go at Henry for it's proven that he's far ahead of the only genuine contender - strange that...

No, for the narrow band of games you've selected he's ahead (assuming your stats are actually right in the first place, which is always dodgy with you). Over all the relevant games chief poseur is still miles behind horse.