Socceroos and Australian Football

[Salamuddin]

Whilst i'd agree there is a degree bitterness about it, you have to agree with some of the points he makes.

He comes up with this gem of a quote
“The referees should have cracked down on all the diving and rolling around. It’s a man’s game not always played by men.”

“There were guys who looked like they were dying, and then suddenly they’d jump back up again.”

“That’s not the way we play. If we get hit we get back up and play the game.”

Please I saw at least two instances of Australian players (including Mr Kewell himself) diving in order to win a free kick/penalty.
I've never really understood this "we don't do it, but others do" attitude....pretty much every team indulges in diving.

Why doesn't Grella have the guts to admit that Japan, even taking out the red card scenraio (which btw I also thought was harsh) looked a far more creative and enterprising side ? Even Iraq and Oman looked technically better than the Socceroos.

Le' Murray's article is a much better read for mine http://www.theworldgame.com.au/opini...id=92314&ct=22

[Johnners]

ZOMG 2 whole instances, as compared to what, 2 instances for opposition player? Our strikers were punished for staying on their feet (the vast majority of the time) and attempting to win the ball in a sporting manner, whereas the opposition went to ground with the slightest touch, as if they'd just been shot from point blank range with a .357 magnum.

Japan certainly looked far more creative and enterprising AFTER Grella was sent of, but unitl that stage, it was an even contest, and you'd be foolish to argue otherwise.

Yes i agree that Iraq, Oman & even Thailand at stages, looked technically better tan the Soccerooos, and i entirely agree with all of what Les Murray is saying, but none of that changes the fact that the refereeing, was shocking, and that the Socceroos were more often than not on the wrong side of it.

[chaminda_00]

Was the refreeing better then your average A-League referee, No. I don't see the big deal that people are making of the refereeing, Australia only has one referee who is better then your average Asian referee. Also Japan were technically the far superior side in the QF before and after Grella send off.

The sad thing about this whole thing is that its nothing new. All the Australian sides have struggled since we moved to Asia, expect Women's team when they were at home in the Asian Women's Cup and the U23s when they played at full strength. But like all those past failures (we haven't had one real success in Asian yet) we learnt nothing and blamed conditions or preparation or the coach. It might be time to look at the techincal ability of our players, especially at youth level.

[chaminda_00]

If you can't beat them, then just steal their coach? Verbeek, Vieira. Would rather Vieira if i had to choice Verbeek too defensive and last time i checked finishing 3rd for South Korea is a failure. But he has worked under Guus a fair bit and has a lot of experienced in Asia.

Juninho the lastest in talks with Sydney, apparently his close to signing. Still would rather we go down the route of buying in young players or experienced players at the peak of their careers. Signing 35yo means you are setting pretty short term goals, regardless of how good they might be.

I guess its about balance and signing young stars such as this makes up for it. But i guess the problem with Vidaic is that he is still about two season away from first team football. With no youth/reserve league he could go down the Lia/Sarkies route and never improve.

[sideshowtim]

How many young superstars want to come to Australia though mate? The only chance the A-League has of nabbing stars is when they're past their prime and are trying to make some nice money towards the end of their careers. Juninho, while obviously not at his best these days, will still carve up in the A-League and it'll be a pleasure to have him at Sydney. Can't wait to see him play, and I hope we sing him. We'll need him now that Carney has just gone.

[Salamuddin]

ZOMG 2 whole instances, as compared to what, 2 instances for opposition player? Our strikers were punished for staying on their feet (the vast majority of the time) and attempting to win the ball in a sporting manner, whereas the opposition went to ground with the slightest touch, as if they'd just been shot from point blank range with a .357 magnum.

Japan certainly looked far more creative and enterprising AFTER Grella was sent of, but unitl that stage, it was an even contest, and you'd be foolish to argue otherwise.

Yes i agree that Iraq, Oman & even Thailand at stages, looked technically better tan the Soccerooos, and i entirely agree with all of what Les Murray is saying, but none of that changes the fact that the refereeing, was shocking, and that the Socceroos were more often than not on the wrong side of it.

Oh please....if your own players dive, it's not like you guys can take the moral high ground .....

Even before the Grella sendoff, it's obvious Japan looked a better team than the Shockeroos.
They had twice the number of chances on goal even up to that point in the game.
If they had better finishing, they would have been up 2-0..

The Shockeroos midfield was virtually devoid of any playmaking whatsoever..Viduka and Aloisi barely had any quality looks at the Japanese goal the whole game....partly due to the excellent defending but largely due to the fact that were receiveing any quality through balls from midfield.
So please stop with the excuses....the Shockeroos weren't good enough !!!! Period !!!

[Son Of Coco]

If you can't beat them, then just steal their coach? Verbeek, Vieira. Would rather Vieira if i had to choice Verbeek too defensive and last time i checked finishing 3rd for South Korea is a failure. But he has worked under Guus a fair bit and has a lot of experienced in Asia.

Juninho the lastest in talks with Sydney, apparently his close to signing. Still would rather we go down the route of buying in young players or experienced players at the peak of their careers. Signing 35yo means you are setting pretty short term goals, regardless of how good they might be.

I guess its about balance and signing young stars such as this makes up for it. But i guess the problem with Vidaic is that he is still about two season away from first team football. With no youth/reserve league he could go down the Lia/Sarkies route and never improve.

I don't think Vieira was staying with Iraq anyway...in fact I'm sure he wasn't.

[Samuel_Vimes]

I don't think Vieira was staying with Iraq anyway...in fact I'm sure he wasn't.

Yeah, been clear all along.

Egil Olsen a favourite to take over, at least here.

[Johnners]

Oh please....if your own players dive, it's not like you guys can take the moral high ground .....

Even before the Grella sendoff, it's obvious Japan looked a better team than the Shockeroos.
They had twice the number of chances on goal even up to that point in the game.
If they had better finishing, they would have been up 2-0..

The Shockeroos midfield was virtually devoid of any playmaking whatsoever..Viduka and Aloisi barely had any quality looks at the Japanese goal the whole game....partly due to the excellent defending but largely due to the fact that were receiveing any quality through balls from midfield.
So please stop with the excuses....the Shockeroos weren't good enough !!!! Period !!!

In case you forgot, Australia scored 1st, and yes i'll admit (now that i've calmed down some) that Japan were the marginally better team until Grella was sent off, but it was hardly as obvious as you're making it out to be. (The first 10 minutes after half time was what separated them imo)

Back on the diving issue though, we've every right to complain when, the opposition was rolling around on the ground, calling for stretchers then walking back on for a third of the match (a slight exaggeration maybe, but you get the point).

In case you haven't read any of my posts, i'm not making excuses, i know the Socceroos didn't play anywhere near well enough, if the did, chances are they wouldn't have had to play Japan so early, but the amount of one-eyed anti-Australia crap that you go on about is quite tiresome and annoying tbh.

[chaminda_00]

The thing is the only sides in world football that don't dive is Australia and New Zealand, well i guess some other Pacific sides as well. Every side in the world dives these days, i think it is about time Australia just got over it and faced the fact that thats how Football is played these days and moved on. I don't really see the big deal about diving, it doesn't win or lose you football generally. It just slows down the flow of sides and if Australia can't work around that, it kind of illustrates how poor they are/were playing.

[chaminda_00]

How many young superstars want to come to Australia though mate? The only chance the A-League has of nabbing stars is when they're past their prime and are trying to make some nice money towards the end of their careers. Juninho, while obviously not at his best these days, will still carve up in the A-League and it'll be a pleasure to have him at Sydney. Can't wait to see him play, and I hope we sing him. We'll need him now that Carney has just gone.

I don't see why we can't sign players who have still got 3-4 good years left in them. Guys that either playing 2nd division football in European, or lower tier football in South America. Fred for example wasn't a starting player at his club, so that why he was looking for a move. A lot of guys that do move to the Mid-East and East Asia are still in their late 20s. If they can attract those players why can't we. Also you do get quite a few young guys that move to those places early when they miss the cut after youth football and still turn out to be half decent. Alex from Japan was like that and now his playing in Europe. It is possiable to attract those type of players on the same wages as Australian players.

[ash chaulk]

what about that 9yr old signing eh?

obvious that the english are going to steal him once hes old enough to play int

[kears_falcon_9]

I don't really see the big deal about diving, it doesn't win or lose you football generally.

I could name one game that it affected, it invovlded Australia and Italy..... anyone remember that game

Still hurts

[chaminda_00]

A poor attempt at a tackle by Neill didn't help matters and i did say generally.

[Matteh]

Missed him completely though and was basically just having a lie down on the floor.