Six Nations

[BoyBrumby]

To be honest I think the talk of England's demise is a huge over-reaction.

3 losses by a combined total of 10 points (and the heaviest one owed a lot to the refereeing by all accounts) isn't as bad as some like to think.

No, I totally agree (& it's 9 points, BTW or 11 if you include our defeat by The Crims before the 6 Nations).

It's just frustrating to know if we'd have Sir Jonny or Sir Jonno in our team we'd probably have won all 4! What is annoying is that we've lost our aura of invincibilty we had only a couple of years ago. We played terribly on occasion & still won games thanks to Jonny's points or Jonno's bloody-minded force of will.

Trouble is I think we'd need both to win in the land of the long white cloud.

[Blaze]

Ironic how O'Gara was whining about/to the referee, bet he wasn't whining when the ref handed them a victory against England.

Not really.. most players will whine to a referee if they feel their team is getting unfairly treated.. and I am yet to seea player complain when their side are getting the rub of the green

[Smudge]

No, I totally agree (& it's 9 points, BTW or 11 if you include our defeat by The Crims before the 6 Nations).

It's just frustrating to know if we'd have Sir Jonny or Sir Jonno in our team we'd probably have won all 4! What is annoying is that we've lost our aura of invincibilty we had only a couple of years ago. We played terribly on occasion & still won games thanks to Jonny's points or Jonno's bloody-minded force of will.

Trouble is I think we'd need both to win in the land of the long white cloud.

You really think Wilkinson would have made the difference in those matches? That's stretching it at best.

[Scaly piscine]

You really think Wilkinson would have made the difference in those matches? That's stretching it at best.

It's not remotely stretching it, the margins were very small and there were plenty of kicks missed by England. That's without guessing at how many drop goals he might have scored as well.

[marc71178]

You really think Wilkinson would have made the difference in those matches? That's stretching it at best.

If he'd been there I dare say the Eng;and gameplan would've changed.

[Tim]

As a goal kicker, Wilkinson is the best in the world...as a play-maker, I think he's average at best.

Currently though, i'd consider him as the World best 5/8..but it won't be long before he's over-taken by Dan Carter & Matt Giteau IMO.

[Blaze]

Dan Carter and Matt Giteau are playmakers.. something Wilkonson is not very good at

They both are far better attacking players and their kicking will develop ( Carters is pretty good at the moment anyway )

By 2007 Wilkonson will be at least the 3rd if not 4th or 5th best fly half in the world

[Tim]

The thing about Carter & Giteau is that they're both outstanding goal-kickers already..Carter in particular..plus they are extremely good at running into gaps & also putting their team-mates into space.

Wilkinson is solid in that area, he's certainly not rubbish but I think there is a new breed of 5/8's coming through & I think he's going to be left behind.

[Somerset]

Dan Carter and Matt Giteau are playmakers.. something Wilkonson is not very good at

They both are far better attacking players and their kicking will develop ( Carters is pretty good at the moment anyway )

By 2007 Wilkonson will be at least the 3rd if not 4th or 5th best fly half in the world

That's if Wilkinson's still playing in 2007 of course. Carter and Giteau are more than likely to be around and heading to France but with the way Wilkinson's going injury-wise with his fragile state, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make it TBH.

[BoyBrumby]

Thought I'd dig this up as the whole shebang is about to start again.

Personally I can't see past France this year, for me they're up there challenging SA for the title of second best team in the world just now (NZ clearly head & shoulders ahead of the pack) &, crucially, we have to go to gay Paris this year. From memory we've won once there (2000) in ten years.

Wales are going to struggle, they've had a bad trot with injuries & there was the slightest hint of the fluke about last year. Ireland look to have found some half-decent young backs & there seems to be even an air of optimism up in Sweatyland.

As for Albion, well I think we'll again assume our position of dominance over the Celts & will obviously beat the Argie/SA select XV that trade under "Italy", but I can't se our ten-man game (judging by our mooted centre pairing, Noon & Tindall, we've given up on the expansive game completely once again) being enough for a team with a pack that can go toe-to-toe with us (ie France).

My finishing positions:

France (Slam)
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy

[Samuel_Vimes]

will obviously beat the Argie/SA select XV that trade under "Italy"

I'm puzzled about Italian rugby. There's media interest (Six Nations matches are covered on RAI, I think, and there's quite a bit of coverage in La Gazzetta), yet the national team has had no serious success, and the players aren't even Italian.

Then you've got the winter sports where Italian athletes does have success, and which they don't seem to care about, even though they have the Olympics on home soil this winter.

Odd.

[BoyBrumby]

I'm puzzled about Italian rugby. There's media interest (Six Nations matches are covered on RAI, I think, and there's quite a bit of coverage in La Gazzetta), yet the national team has had no serious success, and the players aren't even Italian.

Then you've got the winter sports where Italian athletes does have success, and which they don't seem to care about, even though they have the Olympics on home soil this winter.

Odd.

I don't pretend to be any kind of an expert on Italian sporting preferences, but maybe Rugger does well thru its similarity to (Association) Football? I guess also team sports tend to generate more of a tribal following than solo sports like skiing or skating.

Dunno, just guessing!

BTW, Rugby get any sort of coverage in Norway?

[Blaze]

France all the way for me.

[Samuel_Vimes]

I don't pretend to be any kind of an expert on Italian sporting preferences, but maybe Rugger does well thru its similarity to (Association) Football? I guess also team sports tend to generate more of a tribal following than solo sports like skiing or skating.

That's true - I think Norway's one of very few countries where individual sports have a following on a level with team sports (and that's only because we can't play football half the year and have to take what's on the TV). If you look at http://www.sportitalia.com, rugby has its own section, while "winter sports" is brought together under one (I suppose that doesn't say much, though). Maybe it's just me getting frustrated at the lack of coverage surrounding Italy's first win at the European speed skating championships, which Enrico Fabris celebrated this year in front of me and 6-7,000 others - he probably got more cheers from the crowd here than he'll ever get in Italy

BTW, Rugby get any sort of coverage in Norway?

Yeah, we had two pages in Aftenposten (our Times - complete with shift to tabloid) on Magnus Lund when he got selected. Which is everything we've had since the RWC, I think.

[Chubb]

Frankly, I love the Italian rugby team because they remind me excessively of Zimbabwe. So I support them in the Six Nations because I nailed my rugby colours to the Silver Fern a long time ago. So, go Mirco, Mauro, Alessandro and Sergio- Italy's Flowers, Goodwin and Streak., can't forget Lo Cicero and Castrogiovanni either.

Seriously, they aren't that bad, they have an excellent pack and driving maul but no real imagination or flair. They'll probably get the wooden spoon, but they might beat Scotland.