Rugby League - International

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

How would you go about replicating a union scrum with only 13 on the field? More players than that would surely be too many if you were to use league's "ball recycling" as it were as players wouldn't be taken out of play by the ruck.

Flankers don't really push all that much, tbh. Essentially there to scrag the #9 (half-back in leaguese) & contest possession at the break-down so could be dispensed with without too much negative effect on the set piece if the hybrid code used league's play-the-ball restarts.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

Flankers don't really push all that much, tbh. Essentially there to scrag the #9 (half-back in leaguese) & contest possession at the break-down so could be dispensed with without too much negative effect on the set piece if the hybrid code used league's play-the-ball restarts.

Fair enough.

I can never see a hybrid code really eventuating though - not as a replacement for the two codes it's combining, anyway - purely because of the number of different parties across the world that would have to agree to it for it to truly happen. It'd break down somewhere. For example - why on earth would the SARB agree to change the rules of their game (and not just a couple - there'd be some wholesale changes) just to make their rivals stronger?

[Ausage]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

League fan prefers league non-shocker.

I love scrums, me. I guess it's because I've spent many years at the coalface myself, as it were, so can appreciate the intricacies that go into the set piece. Sure, it's a pain when they're constantly reset, but that an issue of weak refereeing as often as not. I'd actually advocate a specific referee just for the scrum, so it can be seen what's going on on both sides.

Sort of underscores the problem though doesn't it? If this hybrid game is going to be enough like League for Leaguies to accept it, it won't be Union enough for Union folk, and vice versa.

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

I appreciate they can be off putting to the outsider, but if union fans are going to watch the proposed hybrid some facets of the senior code will have to be taken onboard. I think it'd be quite interesting to see how the game would develop if (say) at the end of a set of six a team could kick for touch rather than just booting the ball downfield and have a chance of regaining possession by means of a line out. It'd make the game less regimented anyway. IMHO, obvz.

I think you'd see ALOT of kicking for touch. You wouldn't see guys like Slater, Hayne and Gordon bringing the ball back into broken defensive lines. You'd need to take the wingers out of the defensive line though which might be interesting, more space for guys to run through.

Then it's just League with lineouts and contested scrums though. Would that be enough for the majority of Union fans?

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

Anyway, league has tried this before, albeit with Aussie Rules rather than union and it didn't stick then.

Interesting to note that the idea didn't take off because League officials didn't want the rules of the game interfered with. They were happy with the game the way it was. You see pretty similar attitudes to the proposal today from League fans, in spite of the obvious similarities between the two codes, and the way League has reinvented itself over the years. I don't know whether that says more about us as fans, or more about the quality of the sport. More than likely a bit of both.

On a side note, that site is awesome

[ripper868]

Just play League, do away with the stripping rule (Ball can be pinched anytime - as in Union) add proper Scrums (minus the flankers) and lineouts and i'd be happy.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Ausage

Sort of underscores the problem though doesn't it? If this hybrid game is going to be enough like League for Leaguies to accept it, it won't be Union enough for Union folk, and vice versa.

I think you'd see ALOT of kicking for touch. You wouldn't see guys like Slater, Hayne and Gordon bringing the ball back into broken defensive lines. You'd need to take the wingers out of the defensive line though which might be interesting, more space for guys to run through.

Then it's just League with lineouts and contested scrums though. Would that be enough for the majority of Union fans?

Interesting to note that the idea didn't take off because League officials didn't want the rules of the game interfered with. They were happy with the game the way it was. You see pretty similar attitudes to the proposal today from League fans, in spite of the obvious similarities between the two codes, and the way League has reinvented itself over the years. I don't know whether that says more about us as fans, or more about the quality of the sport. More than likely a bit of both.

On a side note, that site is awesome

I think there'd obviously need to be some give and take on both sides and, traditionally, neither one has been very keen to extend the olive branch. League fans tend to see the ways in which it differs from union as its strengths and vice versa. I actually doubt either governing body would be hugely keen to sanction it either, the hybrid code possibly being the thin end of the wedge to a merger.

There was a "cross code challenge" up here way back in 1996 when Wigan & Bath (the respective English champions at the time) played two games in both codes. Wigan won 82-6 in the league game; Bath 44-19 in the union game. Here future world cup winner Mike Catt hilariously attempts a drop goal with Wigan 40-0 ahead. Wigan meanwhile adapted rather better, as these two length of pitch efforts finished by Craig Murdock show.

What's most noticeable is that half the Wigan team subsequently went onto have careers in the senior code (admittedly Offiah, Quinnell and Tuigamala were from union originally) but none of the 15-man code went the other way.

&, yeah, RL1908's magic, isn't it? Love the history of league.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Julian87

I don't have a problem with scrums. Ties up the forwards for an attacking backline move and as Emm from CS says if you knock the ball on you don't really deserve a chance of getting the ball back.

I've only played wing in rugby so don't have much time for scrums. If there is a hybrid game I hope they keep league scrums. I actually find them far more entertaining that rugby scrums just becuase I find it amusing how crooked the feed is from the half back.

[ripper868]

Having only played wing, I hope you at least have respect for the work the forwards, of both codes, do.

Scrums (union) when done properly is a great thing IMO 1700kgs trying to outmanuvere each other. The intricacies to front row play are incredible IMO, and far more subtle then any flashy backline move/slight of hand etc.

[BoyBrumby]

The first "International Origin" game about to kick off. England play a team made of the non-Poms playing in the Super League. Dunno if it's got much interest down under.

Some big names in the Exiles: Buderus, Fitzgibbon, Thomas Leulaui and Pat Richards amongst them. Matt King was due to play, but his Missus has gone in to labour.

Will give us a stiffer test than the French anyway.

[vic_orthdox]

Exiles got up, I hear?

I was on a train back from Nottingham.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

Exiles got up, I hear?

I was on a train back from Nottingham.

Yup. Last minute winner too.

Was a pretty decent game, although we look as ordinary a team as I can remember just now.

[BoyBrumby]

The Welsh Super League experiment is over then. From the BBC.

The old "heartlands versus expansion" debate will run and run, I guess. Pleased Widnes are back tho; proper league team in a proper league town.

[BoyBrumby]

From the BBC.

No more or less English than Shontayne Hape, I suppose. Just seems faintly embarrassing that we select a bloke who was playing against England for the Exiles as recently as June.

[Ausage]

Chase must be going well to get selected ahead of Widdop. Kid had a fantastic season, and is learning from some of the best players going around.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Ausage

Chase must be going well to get selected ahead of Widdop. Kid had a fantastic season, and is learning from some of the best players going around.

Widdop's been named too. From the BBC:

England's Four Nations Series squad:

Carl Ablett (Leeds), Ryan Bailey (Leeds), Tom Briscoe (Hull), Garreth Carvell (Warrington), Rangi Chase (Castleford), Leroy Cudjoe (Huddersfield), Gareth Ellis (Wests Tigers), James Graham (St Helens), Ryan Hall (Leeds), Chris Heighington (Wests Tigers), Ben Jones-Bishop (Leeds), Jamie Jones-Buchanan (Leeds), Jonny Lomax (St Helens), Michael McIlorum (Wigan), Adrian Morley (Warrington), Jamie Peacock (Leeds, capt), Jack Reed (Brisbane), James Roby (St Helens), Kevin Sinfield (Leeds), Sam Tomkins (Wigan), Ben Westwood (Warrington), Gareth Widdop (Melbourne), Jon Wilkin (St Helens), Kirk Yeaman (Hull).

---

No Burgess, Burrows, O'Loughlin or Joel Tomkins. Think we'll struggle.

[ripper868]

Heighington?

Wow.