Official Rugby Thread

[Somerset]

None of these players should be anywhere near a Black jersey IMO, but that's the sorry state of NZ rugby right now. Pretty much everyone half decent minus Carter and a few others has gone to Europe for the money.

Anthony Tuitavake, Richard Kahui, Ma'a Nonu, Andy Ellis, Jerome Kaino, Daniel Braid, Keven Mealamu, John Afoa, Anthony Boric, Sione Lauaki, Jimmy Cowan, Stephen Donald

The ironic thing about Tuitavake is that he was so impressive for Auckland and North Harbour at outside centre...so the ABs play him on the wing.

Kahui, Kaino, Mealamu, Afoa, Cowan I disagree and believe that they have the potential to become quality players. Mealamu has already proven that in the past IMO.

Boric and Donald haven't been given enough opportunities so I'm on the fence with them.

Braid was pretty annonymous but for the first few minutes of the second half but I agree that he should be on that list. Nonu agree. Ellis definitely agree.

Lauaki is an incredibly frustrating player, he most definitely made an impact against South Africa two weeks ago and made a positive contribution from the bench, even if it was a losing cause. Tonight he was absolutely shocking. I'm sure that he alone made five or six basic errors that cost possession in the final 15 minutes of the match. With those sort of elementary errors I'd be inclined to include him on the list too.

 

[James]

I think it was quite clear who the premier flyhalf in the world was tonight, left Giteau for dead even if it was on a losing cause. Donald, Brett as future incumbents do leave me a bit worried when Carter has such an influence on a match though.

For sure, Carter was at his brilliant best tonight. The only light in what was other than that, a dark night for NZ Rugby.

As for tactics, will we really change that much for next week? I'd bet that we'll still go into the match with only Carter as a recognised kicker in the starting XV, a very similar tight five (who really do you change? Afoa for Somerville isn't a massive change), a backline with basically the same approach (run and if that doesn't work keep running). The only real adjustment I guess is McCaw...and maybe it was his presence that was missing tonight and in Dunedin against SA with so many experienced players departing after the 2007 World Cup.

The game wasn't won at the breakdown and I can't really see even if McCaw was playing how it would have changed much. Do you? I think it's just the quality we've lost, and we're replacing them with well rubbish. Sione Lauaki being the prime example of that.

The problem with sacking Henry now is that Deans is gone...if we were to get rid of Graham and his band of followers, Deans was the obvious replacement. We'd be stuffed now sacking Henry because the next best alternative is over the ditch.

Surely there's someone around isn't there I couldn't stand putting up with Henry until at least the 2011 World Cup

To comment on McCaw and Hayley Holt in the stands, I also wondered why he wasn't with the team...obviously had nothing worthwhile adding to the team's tactics (lol). Contrast that to Mortlock who was down sideline.

Hayley Holt, oooooo pretty stunning girl that one after doing a Google search.

Saying something isn't it, when your captain obviously can't be bothered getting involved.

 

[James]

The ironic thing about Tuitavake is that he was so impressive for Auckland and North Harbour at outside centre...so the ABs play him on the wing.

Kahui, Kaino, Mealamu, Afoa, Cowan I disagree and believe that they have the potential to become quality players. Mealamu has already proven that in the past IMO.

Boric and Donald haven't been given enough opportunities so I'm on the fence with them.

Braid was pretty annonymous but for the first few minutes of the second half but I agree that he should be on that list. Nonu agree. Ellis definitely agree.

Lauaki is an incredibly frustrating player, he most definitely made an impact against South Africa two weeks ago and made a positive contribution from the bench, even if it was a losing cause. Tonight he was absolutely shocking. I'm sure that he alone made five or six basic errors that cost possession in the final 15 minutes of the match. With those sort of elementary errors I'd be inclined to include him on the list too.

When Mealamu can learn to throw the ball in straight I might agree with you

It's going down a similiar route to the Black Caps really in losing the likes of Nathan Astle, Stephen Fleming, Shane Bond comparing that to Chris Jack, Bryon Kellher, McCallister and the others who have left/retired, you can't find immediate replacements for them, and the depth that we used to pride ourselves on in NZ Rugby is clearly not what it once was.

 

[Somerset]

The game wasn't won at the breakdown and I can't really see even if McCaw was playing how it would have changed much. Do you? I think it's just the quality we've lost, and we're replacing them with well rubbish. Sione Lauaki being the prime example of that.

Agreed though I was talking about his presence and leadership just as much as his play. Did Rodney say two words to the referee tonight?

Surely there's someone around isn't there I couldn't stand putting up with Henry until at least the 2011 World Cup

Gatland's gone too and I think he would've been another option. Off the top of my head there actually aren't that many options...though after hearing Todd Blackader's into the coaching side of the game now....you never know.

Hayley Holt, oooooo pretty stunning girl that one after doing a Google search.

Saying something isn't it, when your captain obviously can't be bothered getting involved.

She was on the past couple of Dancing with the Stars seasons as far as I know. She was with Brendan Pongia in the season he was in it.

 

[Somerset]

When Mealamu can learn to throw the ball in straight I might agree with you

It's going down a similiar route to the Black Caps really in losing the likes of Nathan Astle, Stephen Fleming, Shane Bond comparing that to Chris Jack, Bryon Kellher, McCallister and the others who have left/retired, you can't find immediate replacements for them, and the depth that we used to pride ourselves on in NZ Rugby is clearly not what it once was.

Andrew Hore had a few issues tonight so I don't think Mealamu should be on the list solely for line out skill....I've seen worse anyway. With the ELVs in place, we seem to get so few line outs anyway in the game.

Tend to agree with your comparision of the All Blacks with the Black Caps...though at least we've managed to maintain reasonable ODI form in international cricket even with the departures of so many senior players.

 

[James]

Agreed though I was talking about his presence and leadership just as much as his play. Did Rodney say two words to the referee tonight?

He clearly isn't a leader and I was shocked when he was handed the job.

Yes definitely in regard to McCaw, he's certainly a natural born leader.

Gatland's gone too and I think he would've been another option. Off the top of my head there actually aren't that many options...though after hearing Todd Blackader's into the coaching side of the game now....you never know.

So what you're saying is we have to put up with him until after the 2011 WC and hope Deans will come back then. Oh dear

She was on the past couple of Dancing with the Stars seasons as far as I know. She was with Brendan Pongia in the season he was in it.

Oh right, very nice.

 

[James]

Andrew Hore had a few issues tonight so I don't think Mealamu should be on the list solely for line out skill....I've seen worse anyway. With the ELVs in place, we seem to get so few line outs anyway in the game.

Yeah, I miss a good game of lineouts actually. Still coming to terms with the new laws and I've undecided on them at this stage.

Tend to agree with your comparision of the All Blacks with the Black Caps...though at least we've managed to maintain reasonable ODI form in international cricket even with the departures of so many senior players.

That's a fair point.

There's nothing between the teams in international rugby now really is there. Anyone of SA, Aus, NZ, France, England could beat the other on their day.

 

[Somerset]

So what you're saying is we have to put up with him until after the 2011 WC and hope Deans will come back then. Oh dear

His contract goes until the end of 2009 doesn't it? So I presume we'll be forced to put up with him and his coaching staff until then at least anyway. But yes what I'm saying is that there doesn't seem to be an obvious incumbent calling out for the job since Deans left IMO.

 

[Johnners]

Hehe.

 

[Somerset]

Yeah, I miss a good game of lineouts actually. Still coming to terms with the new laws and I've undecided on them at this stage.

I'm mostly in favour of them because IMO a game that flows has so many advantages spectator wise. Surely the whole idea is to continue to make the game more entertaining, so they're definitely worth trialling for an extended period. I enjoyed the Super 14 more this year with the laws implemented than previous seasons anyway. So generally I'm in favour of the ELVs but they seem to have a few flaws, mainly with regards to the breakdown (oh that and calling touchies assistant referrees - great lot of assistance they've given since their new name).

That's a fair point.

There's nothing between the teams in international rugby now really is there. Anyone of SA, Aus, NZ, France, England could beat the other on their day.

You'll have to wait for World Cup time to have the statement valid with regards to France and England though. At least until they decide on selecting half decent teams to travel to the southern hemisphere.

 

[Johnners]

We played far better than that in Cardiff. Miles and miles better.

We were smashed in SA in 2004, but this was worse.

Hated the ELVs tonight. Thought it was a terrible Test match.

Thought it was positively awesome myself

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Haha, Nisbo. "Aww, penalty try c'mon ref!" Nice objectivity.

Do agree with him though.

Intriguing. Was he offside when trying to tackle? Thought the NZ protests were a bit bizarre but am still struggling a bit with the rules.

Looked like shambolic defending from NZ all the same.

 

[Smudge]

Great stuff Wallabies. Thoroughly deserved their win.

Can we please sack Henry now and get two new half-backs?

Well, James, who do you propose we bring in? Weepu? In terrible form. Who else? Nah, it's really easy to say "sack 'em" if no one's going to ask you for names, isn't it?

None of these players should be anywhere near a Black jersey IMO, but that's the sorry state of NZ rugby right now. Pretty much everyone half decent minus Carter and a few others has gone to Europe for the money.

Anthony Tuitavake, Richard Kahui, Ma'a Nonu, Andy Ellis, Jerome Kaino, Daniel Braid, Keven Mealamu, John Afoa, Anthony Boric, Sione Lauaki, Jimmy Cowan, Stephen Donald

Geez, could you get more knee-jerk? Tuitavake and Kahui did adequately with the limited ball they had and Donald didn't even get on the ****ing field. I have no problems with ripping into the likes of Lauaki (who turned the ball over four times) but having goes at guys who didn't even get on the field and - yet again - not offering any alternatives is just a joke.


As for the game, utterly outclassed - it was a masterclass in Crusaders rugby - any poorly placed clearing kick was absolutely punished by a precise Wallabies team. Aussie lineout again good (their scrum was shielded by referee Joubert) and they absolutely owned us in the breakdown thanks to Daniel Braid giving his best impression of Mark Carter circa 1996. In the backs, Ellis was much improved from previous weeks, but was hampered by useless - utterly useless - protection from the forwards, who were usurped several times by superior cleanouts from the Aussies, who actually wanted the ball.

Nonu wasn't himself - turning over a few more balls than usual - but still made some breaks when the opposition was tired. As for Carter, utterly brilliant - if you want an example of a one-man crusade, he was it. I don't know if that says something about Giteau's defence (probably) but he carved up - unfortunately, the support play was remarkably un-All Blacks like. Muliaina again good and Sivi is nearing his best, but it's a depressing sight when our forwards get outplayed as badly as they did.

Worst ****ing call ever with Joubert completely ignoring that early tackle on Sivivatu close to the line. But while that might have got us within two points, I think the momentum was all Australian anyway...

 

[Somerset]

Intriguing. Was he offside when trying to tackle? Thought the NZ protests were a bit bizarre but am still struggling a bit with the rules.

Looked like shambolic defending from NZ all the same.

The Aussie (Hynes or Cross, can't remember which) wasn't offside, but he tackled Sivivatu without the ball which is against the laws.

And yes the defending at times did leave something to be desired.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

tackled Sivivatu without the ball which is against the laws.

Ah, yeah, then something should have been awarded.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Haha, you didn't know you couldn't tackle someone without the ball?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Haha, you didn't know you couldn't tackle someone without the ball?

Didn't click, no. It's obvious why now he said it.

 

[Craig]

Some of the calls by Joubert were a bit dubious for mine, not just that penalty try that should of been awardered, but there was knock ons by both teams and that were called to have gone backwards, yet they could of easily have been pulled up.

I don't follow rugby enough these days to comment, but surely Lauaki will be lucky to hold his spot in the team.

 

[Flem274*]

Some of the calls by Joubert were a bit dubious for mine, not just that penalty try that should of been awardered, but there was knock ons by both teams and that were called to have gone backwards, yet they could of easily have been pulled up.

I don't follow rugby enough these days to comment, but surely Lauaki will be lucky to hold his spot in the team.

Thats what I'm thinking. he had a howler.

In any case this isn't the refs fault, the Aussies were simply better on the night. Hopefully we can reverse that next week.

What are we goingto do with the injured half backs? Anyone know the seriousness of the injuries?

First Rugby game I've gotten into for ages, quite chuffed.

 

[age_master]

I'm mostly in favour of them because IMO a game that flows has so many advantages spectator wise. Surely the whole idea is to continue to make the game more entertaining, so they're definitely worth trialling for an extended period. I enjoyed the Super 14 more this year with the laws implemented than previous seasons anyway. So generally I'm in favour of the ELVs but they seem to have a few flaws, mainly with regards to the breakdown (oh that and calling touchies assistant referrees - great lot of assistance they've given since their new name).

The ELV's as a whole have worked really well, the super 14 this season was fantastic, so many really good games of rugby.

Awesome effort from the Wallabies last night. Berrick Barnes in particular impressed with his work rate for mine, he was everywhere. He and Giteau had brilliant games in terms of their kicking as well.