Official Rugby Thread

[Zinzan]

Kinda artificial in that he's a second or third choice player so usually only plays against lower ranked teams.

Incidentally, considering the AB's have been no one since late 2009, pretty hard to not play against lower ranked sides isn't it. But yeah I think he did miss playing in 2-3 losses in that time if that was your big point. He may claim it's was due to him not playing

 

[Zinzan]

Stupid...

Lol, the only real stupidity in this thread is your utter disdain for NZ rugby. Constantly listing your all-time great players across a number of positions and purposely omitting ABs hoping someone takes the bait as if they don't know what you're up to..

Classic example

Greatest fullbacks ever...

1. Serge Blanco (France)
2. J.P.R. Williams (Williams)
3. Andy Irvine (Scotland)
4. H.O. de Villiers (South Africa)
5. Gavin Hastings (Scotland)
6. Matt Burke (Australia)
7. Roger Gould (Australia)
8. Chris Latham (Australia)
9. Gerry Brand (South Africa)
10. I don't know...

And what happened to your prediction of a 10 point win to the wallabies last wkd, you were only about 50 points off?

 

[Francis]

Lol, the only real stupidity in this thread is your utter disdain for NZ rugby. Constantly listing your all-time great players across a number of positions and purposely omitting ABs hoping someone takes the bait as if they don't know what you're up to..

Classic example

And what happened to your prediction of a 10 point win to the wallabies last wkd, you were only about 50 points off?

I'm sensing a little hostility here, so I'll apologise. I got my prediction wrong, but it happens. People make predictions, they get them wrong. The 1972 Wallabies turned up on the weekend, and that's unfortunate for the Australians.

The only thing I take exception to is what you said about SA refs being crooked. It's just an old NZ fable. They scored more tries in 1949, but Hennie Muller destroyed them. So they claimed the refs gave phantom penalties. When SA toured the UK in 1952, and beat Scotland 42-0 - nobody blamed the refs.

Anyway... I apologise.

 

[Zinzan]

Be rest assured, It's not hostility, your posts in this thread are far too humourous for that.

 

[Francis]

How about a "peace-offering" - a Francis Waitangi special. You've all been waiting for this... My all-time *** ******* side.

1. Ken Gray
2. Sean Fitzpatrick
3. Punched two South African props because he couldn't take it... his face is crossed-out in my avatar...
4. Andy Haden
5. Colin Meads
6. Kel Tremain
7. Richie McCaw
8. Zinzan Brooke (there you go!)
9. Dave Loveridge
10. Dan Carter
11. Jonah Lomu
12. Bert Cooke
13. Frank Bunce
14. John Kirwan
15. George Nepia

Side number two!

1. Sir Wilson Whineray
2. Has Catley
3. Olo Brown
4. Richard "Tiny" White
5. Ian Jones
6. Ian Kirkpatrick
7. Michael Jones
8. Sir Brian Lochore
9. Sid Going
10. Grant Fox
11. Ron Jardon
12. John Schuster
13. Joe Stanley
14. Jeff Wilson
15. Don "The Boot" Clarke

My third all-time team.

1. Steve McDowell
2. Andy Dalton
3. Carl Hayman
4. Robyn Brooke
5. Gary Whetton
6. Maurice Brownlie
7. Waka Nathan
8. Buck Shelford
9. Chris Laidlaw
10. Andrew Merhtons
11. Doug Howlett
12. Walter Little
13. Bruce Robertson
14. Brian Williams
15. Christian Cullen

 

[hendrix]

reckon Umaga is grossly underrated when it comes to ATG centres.

Jerome Kaino too. Should go down as one of the best 6s ever, doesn't often get mentioned.

 

[Francis]

1. Tony Woodcock
2. Kevin Mealamu
3. Gary Knight
4. Ali Williams
5. Brad Thorn
6. Jerome Kaino
7. Josh Kronfeld
8. Murray Mexted
9. Graham Bachop
10. Earl Kirton
11. Joe Rokocoko
12. Warrick Taylor
13. Tana Umaga
14. Stu Wilson
15. John Gallagher

Should Muliani be in here?

 

[Zinzan]

Remarkably close to my all-time AB XV from everything I've seen and read, although I'd actually have scrum machine Olo Brown ahead of Kevin Skinner, who tends to make most ATG sides for the wrong reasons imo. I'd also have Ian Kirkpatrick ahead of Tremain @ 6.

Many would have Joe Stanley, Bruce Robertson or even Tana ahead of Frank Bunce at centre, but I'm actually with you, Buncey makes my top XV. I also agree 100% with those 2 wingers ahead of the likes of two Wilsons, Jeff & Stu.

Mine...


1. Ken Gray
2. Sean Fitzpatrick
3. Olo Brown
4. Andy Haden
5. Colin Meads
6. Ian Kirkpatrick
7. Richie McCaw
8. Zinzan Brooke (marginally over Buck and Lochore, but has to be no. 1)
9. Dave Loveridge
10. Dan Carter
11. Jonah Lomu
12. Bert Cooke
13. Frank Bunce
14. John Kirwan
15. George Nepia

 

[Zinzan]

reckon Umaga is grossly underrated when it comes to ATG centres.

Really? Can't think of many who don't think he was a great, just some pretty damn stiff competition if we're all-time. A mate of mine solves that problem by playing him at 12 in his, but I couldn't leave Bert Cooke out after what I've read of the guy.

 

[Francis]

1. Johnny Simpson
2. Hika Reid
3. Craig Dowd
4. Stanley Meads
5. F.J. Oliver
6. Cowboy Shaw
7. Graeme Mourie
8. Jerry Collins
9. Marshie
10. Wayne Smith
11. Bernie Fraser
12. Ma'aa Nonu
13. Conrad Smith
14. Sivivatu
15. Mils Muliani

 

[Francis]

Remarkably close to my all-time AB XV from everything I've seen and read, although I'd actually have scrum machine Olo Brown ahead of Kevin Skinner, who tends to make most ATG sides for the wrong reasons imo. I'd also have Ian Kirkpatrick ahead of Tremain @ 6.

I actually thought hard about putting Michael Jones at 6 in my all-time *** ******* side. But we really associate the best of Jones with his form from 1987-1989, until his knee injury. It's tempting to put him at 6, because he was effective at 6 for a few years before his retirement... But Kronfeld was the better openside by then.

Jones wouldn't make my all-time top 10 best flankers ever... but in my all-time *** ******* XV, it's tempting to put him at 6.

 

[Zinzan]

Halfback is an interesting one, I'd probably already have Aaron Smith with his nose in front of Super Sid at no.2, even though they were completely different players.

Loveridge
Smith
Going
Bachop


And Marshall.... (I suppose). Loved his running game and general physicality, but his passing used to drive me insane.

 

[Francis]

Really? Can't think of many who don't think he was a great, just some pretty damn stiff competition if we're all-time. A mate of mine solves that problem by playing him at 12 in his, but I couldn't leave Bert Cooke out after what I've read of the guy.

Tana should never be placed at 12, since he was a 13. I don't know if he'd be effective at second-five. To me, he'd be a better play the more space you give him. Tana's great legacy was his leadership in the last two years of his career, his incredible defence... he was the first center I really saw who allied backline skills with that ability to tackle and get back onto his feet, ala Josh Kronfeld...

But Tana is up there with my most overrated players of all time, along with Giteau and Wilkinson.

 

[Zinzan]

Been watching rugby since I was a nipper from about 1986-87, so my greatest AB XV in that time would be;

1. Karl Hayman (could he play both sides?) if not, Steve McDowell
2. Sean Fitzpatrick
3. Olo Brown
4. Ian Jones
5. Brodie Retallick (yup, already)
6. Michael Jones
7. Richie McCaw
8. Zinzan Brooke
9. Aaron Smith
10. Dan Carter
11. Jonah Lomu
12. Walter Little (Sorry Tana)
13. Frank Bunce
14. John Kirwan
15. Christian Cullen

 

[Zinzan]

Tana should never be placed at 12, since he was a 13. I don't know if he'd be effective at second-five. To me, he'd be a better play the more space you give him. ...

Yup, agree center was his natural position, I remember saying this well before he made the transition from the right wing too. That said, he was still good enough to make a very solid 2nd-five even without much of a kicking game.

But Tana is up there with my most overrated players of all time, along with Giteau and Wilkinson.

This I strongly disagree with

 

[Francis]

This I strongly disagree with

He made Will Carling's 50 Greatest Rugby Players of All Time!

 

[Zinzan]

I'd like to see Carling's 50 before shrieking too much over that. If it was predominately modern players, not such a stretch.

 

[hendrix]

Carl Hayman should make some of these lists too IMO

 

[Zinzan]

He certainly makes my best XV (since 1986) provided we're happy to play him loose-head, because nobody's getting ahead of Olo Brown at tight-head.

 

[Hurricane]

Most overrated players

1) Hooper
2) TPN
3) Skelton
4) Tim Horan (he was good but the best ever - gimme a break)
5) Jonny May the English Winger
6) Rueben Thorne
7) Zinzan Brooke (he was serviceable but people beleived, and sincerely so, that he was an X factor player. The only thing X factor about him was his name. Which was funky. Therefore he must be amazing. Wayne Shelford ten times better than Zinzan.
8) Dane Coles
9) Sean Fitzpatrick - A very good test match player but not a legend of the game by any stretch.
10) Scott Hastings - was nothing to write home about