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Official Rugby Thread
- Thread starter KennyD
- Start date
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
Yep, I would have McCaw now ahead of Jones, and I probably took longer than most in NZ to make the switch. McCaw has been outstanding for at least a decade and has seen off pretty much all his rivals. I still wonder what might have been with Jones if he hadn't sustained that injury v Argentina in 1989. Jones' peak was higher, but McCaw's overall career is better, IMHO.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
McCaw is more likely to be found coming up from the bottom of the ruck looking dazed and confused - and checking his teeth to see if they are all still intact. He is also more of a mongrel and says he enjoys rugby because he likes the collisions.
Jones is the only forward we have had who I would summarise by saying he was all class.
Jones is the only forward we have had who I would summarise by saying he was all class.
ripper868
International Coach
Jones > McCaw. Jones never let a wimpy Aussie 5/8 get to him 
In Super Rugby news. Reds going **** but could have been so much higher - 3 games lost be 4 or less points! Tahs looking hot when Folau is on the field, not so much without him, Force surprising everyone with their defence, looked lost without Mathewson at 9 though. Brumbies being solid and unspectactular, expect them to top the conference. Rebels unearthing a coulpe of gems, Luke Jones has come on leaps and bounds, looks a wallaby bench spot at least for French Tests.
Think Sharks will win the title, just so darned clinical in everything they do.
In Super Rugby news. Reds going **** but could have been so much higher - 3 games lost be 4 or less points! Tahs looking hot when Folau is on the field, not so much without him, Force surprising everyone with their defence, looked lost without Mathewson at 9 though. Brumbies being solid and unspectactular, expect them to top the conference. Rebels unearthing a coulpe of gems, Luke Jones has come on leaps and bounds, looks a wallaby bench spot at least for French Tests.
Think Sharks will win the title, just so darned clinical in everything they do.
Burgey
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Have to applaud the ARU's caution re the Falou injury and over riding the Waratahs tbh. Much as it hurts their chances in the games he missed, it's good to see a governing body looking after the long term welfare of a player.
On the Jones v McCaw thing, how lucky are you to have those blokes to choose from? I remember Jones just being someone who was so dynamic and hard working, but who never looked fazed about anything. He went about it and looked like he was playing in a dinner suit (usually a perjorative comment, but not in his case) yet he was doing anything but.
McCaw has been so good for so long though. Just a great, great player.
On the Jones v McCaw thing, how lucky are you to have those blokes to choose from? I remember Jones just being someone who was so dynamic and hard working, but who never looked fazed about anything. He went about it and looked like he was playing in a dinner suit (usually a perjorative comment, but not in his case) yet he was doing anything but.
McCaw has been so good for so long though. Just a great, great player.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Sharks won't win. Get your money down on either the saders or Chiefs. No SA team travels well. Have the Sharks even been on the road yet (outside of SA)
No way they will win it. Cantabs are 7 to 1. Get in on that action while you can.
Rebels are such an annoying team to bet against.
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Magrat Garlick
Global Moderator
Nope, mammoth tour coming up in May with Rebels, Brumbies, Saders and Blues. Can see them sneaking the first and last of those tho, might be enough to top the log if they win all matches in SA.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Actually didn't think my post through if they can top the table then obv they will get home playoffs. So yes they could win it.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Indeed. SA teams at home are a menace. Good to see you back talking about Rugby btw.
You must be happy with the better overall performances by the Australian teams this year. I know you would prefer to see the Reds carve up, but the emergence of the force, and non suckiness of the rebels can only be a good thing.
Also word on the street is that Beale may play inside centre for the Qantas Wallabies.
They won't have depth in the reserves but they could have a decent 15. With the only problem at 1st 5 and the locks (traditionally a strength for Aussie harking back to skylab).
Here is my team:
Front row
Slipper (a Machine in the scrum - useless around the paddock - possibly most dominant scrummager in super rugby atm)
Moore
alexander
Locks
No one is breaking down the door.
Back row
6 higginbottham
7 Hooper
8 McKalman (This year's star player for me)
Depending on what locks they put out - this could be a good "pack". If they can unearth a hard man for the second row then so much the better.
backs
9 Genia will be pressed by others so is not a shoo in. He looks sluggish in some games and is getting caught before he can clear the ball from the base.
10 Cooper? Toomua? Aussie need a world class 10.
11 Honey Badger
12 Beale
13 Tevita Kuridrani - he just gives more options than ashley cooper.
14 Ashley Cooper would like to have him on the bench as utility injury cover but I can't think of any other person to play 14 as well as him.
15 Folau
Reserves
Aussie have a couple of good reserve halfbacks
But the other positions don't have four nations quality depth e.g. they would be well served to drop Pat McCabe from all future training squads.
Edit Christian L to be injury cover for the 10 and 12 jersey.
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dermo
International Vice-Captain
Fardy and Simmons would be my choice for the 2nd rowers, both were killing it for the wallabies at the end of last year. Polota-Nau could well be the starting hooker also, there's not much in it.
Cooper will definitely be the starting 10, and i'd be playing Ashley Cooper at 13 over Kuridrani. 1. Ashley Cooper has had a very good season so far and 2. I'm always in favour of playing combinations where you can.
If you were to pick Kuridrani over Ashley Cooper though, you have to be playing someone with a bit more x factor on the wing like a Speight, Tomane or possibly Betham. My choice would be Betham but thats my NSW/Joeys bias coming through
Cooper will definitely be the starting 10, and i'd be playing Ashley Cooper at 13 over Kuridrani. 1. Ashley Cooper has had a very good season so far and 2. I'm always in favour of playing combinations where you can.
If you were to pick Kuridrani over Ashley Cooper though, you have to be playing someone with a bit more x factor on the wing like a Speight, Tomane or possibly Betham. My choice would be Betham but thats my NSW/Joeys bias coming through
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
I will watch Kuridrani this weekend and then respond to this sentence next week. TBF I have only seen him in two games. One game was a test where I thought he as a revelation. And one game just back from injury where I thought he was very rusty.
ripper868
International Coach
Interesting team hurricane, and particularly the comments about a World Class 10, which I feel Cooper certainly is and Toomua not far off. If by 'World Class' we are talking Dan Carter standard, then there is only 1 world class 10 in the world - Dan Carter.
Front Row for me:
Slipper
Moore then TPN, Hanson, Faingaa
Anyone but Alexander. Sio, Robinson, Kepu, Alo-Emile (rebels bench, watch this space)
Seconds:
Horwill - he's building slowly into what he was, certainly not at his best but I don't think he has been outplayed by any others yet.
Simmons/Fardy/Douglas/Jones - probably that order. Simmons does a mountain of dirty work thats not captured in stats (hitting rucks etc) and is a lineout specialist. The others are good yes, but Simmons tips it for his lineout skills IMO. to be fair, Potgeiter has probaly been the standout 2nd row in the Aussie conference.
Backrow:
6 - Fardy - I just prefer him here. He's abrasive, he's mean, he has a beard, he's everything you want in a 6. Other notables include...Ed Quirk? (tongue in cheek)
7 - Hooper - I'd still have a fully fit Pocock but thats looking about as likely as TPN and Palu finishing a game together. Hooper has been brilliant. behind him I'd have Gill
8 - Higginbotham - a bloody awkward big fast guy to tackle, can get lazy but has a mongrel element as well that i think "mad Dog" McCalman lacks. McCalman get a bench spot for sure on his form but he's been ineffectual at test level for many years so I'm loathe to believe the hype just yet. Palu over them both when FULLY fit.
9. Genia. Suffering behind a stymied pack at the moment and seems to have shelved his running game. bring that back, shelve the box kicks, and you'll see why I wanted him in the rugby draft of 2009(2010?). Take your pick afterwards, with White first though. Burgess has had moments but generally average. Phipps is ****, Stirzacker not in the Frame and Mathewson a Kiwi. Prior a long last of the half backs ive seen so far (Which is a pity, i like Prior as a bloke)
10. Quade. Give him runners of the calibre of AAC/Kuridrani/Tomane/Izzy/Cummins to hit and he can tear teams apart. It's what he is lacking at the Reds this year - No Ioane, no Morahan and Davies couldn't catch chlamydia at the moment. his defence has stepped up immensely as well. Toomua back up 10 but I'll have him at 12 like last year. behind Toomua is Foley who has been a dangerous runner for the Tahs, his distribution isn't fantastic but by god he has a massive step on him. Quades distribution is peerless for me (including Carter - Carter better overall but give me Quades passing skills anyday)
12. Toomua. Hard edged good distributor and runner who can read the game well. Sounds like a perfect 10, but we have a not quite perfect 10 which makes Toomua that much more of a danger at 12 - he can be a runner for QC to hit in a hole or a second man distributor. Behind Toomua in 12 is Lealiafano and Beale (I'm still not sold on Beale as a 12, but there's not other major options - Godwin will be in for 2019 RWC though)
13. AAC - oozes class and would be my second name on the sheet. Solid D, big fend, and shown recently he does have a passing game. Works well with QC and knows how to run into holes which is what Quade thrives on. behind him Kuridrani, CFS, Inman (may be a bit slow) and Tapuai.
11/14 - in Order of my preference - Cummins (not the quickest but geeze i wouldnt want him coming at me, never says die), Speight, Tomane, Morahan, Betham, Woodward (or is he Kiwi?)
15. Izzy no contest. Kid is a freak.the day a World XV has Savea, Izzy and North at 11/15/14 is the day defence cant plan ****. Behind izzy I'd have Beale, Woodward and Morahan.
I've likely left out someone obvious but it is 4am and I've had a few.
Front Row for me:
Slipper
Moore then TPN, Hanson, Faingaa
Anyone but Alexander. Sio, Robinson, Kepu, Alo-Emile (rebels bench, watch this space)
Seconds:
Horwill - he's building slowly into what he was, certainly not at his best but I don't think he has been outplayed by any others yet.
Simmons/Fardy/Douglas/Jones - probably that order. Simmons does a mountain of dirty work thats not captured in stats (hitting rucks etc) and is a lineout specialist. The others are good yes, but Simmons tips it for his lineout skills IMO. to be fair, Potgeiter has probaly been the standout 2nd row in the Aussie conference.
Backrow:
6 - Fardy - I just prefer him here. He's abrasive, he's mean, he has a beard, he's everything you want in a 6. Other notables include...Ed Quirk? (tongue in cheek)
7 - Hooper - I'd still have a fully fit Pocock but thats looking about as likely as TPN and Palu finishing a game together. Hooper has been brilliant. behind him I'd have Gill
8 - Higginbotham - a bloody awkward big fast guy to tackle, can get lazy but has a mongrel element as well that i think "mad Dog" McCalman lacks. McCalman get a bench spot for sure on his form but he's been ineffectual at test level for many years so I'm loathe to believe the hype just yet. Palu over them both when FULLY fit.
9. Genia. Suffering behind a stymied pack at the moment and seems to have shelved his running game. bring that back, shelve the box kicks, and you'll see why I wanted him in the rugby draft of 2009(2010?). Take your pick afterwards, with White first though. Burgess has had moments but generally average. Phipps is ****, Stirzacker not in the Frame and Mathewson a Kiwi. Prior a long last of the half backs ive seen so far (Which is a pity, i like Prior as a bloke)
10. Quade. Give him runners of the calibre of AAC/Kuridrani/Tomane/Izzy/Cummins to hit and he can tear teams apart. It's what he is lacking at the Reds this year - No Ioane, no Morahan and Davies couldn't catch chlamydia at the moment. his defence has stepped up immensely as well. Toomua back up 10 but I'll have him at 12 like last year. behind Toomua is Foley who has been a dangerous runner for the Tahs, his distribution isn't fantastic but by god he has a massive step on him. Quades distribution is peerless for me (including Carter - Carter better overall but give me Quades passing skills anyday)
12. Toomua. Hard edged good distributor and runner who can read the game well. Sounds like a perfect 10, but we have a not quite perfect 10 which makes Toomua that much more of a danger at 12 - he can be a runner for QC to hit in a hole or a second man distributor. Behind Toomua in 12 is Lealiafano and Beale (I'm still not sold on Beale as a 12, but there's not other major options - Godwin will be in for 2019 RWC though)
13. AAC - oozes class and would be my second name on the sheet. Solid D, big fend, and shown recently he does have a passing game. Works well with QC and knows how to run into holes which is what Quade thrives on. behind him Kuridrani, CFS, Inman (may be a bit slow) and Tapuai.
11/14 - in Order of my preference - Cummins (not the quickest but geeze i wouldnt want him coming at me, never says die), Speight, Tomane, Morahan, Betham, Woodward (or is he Kiwi?)
15. Izzy no contest. Kid is a freak.the day a World XV has Savea, Izzy and North at 11/15/14 is the day defence cant plan ****. Behind izzy I'd have Beale, Woodward and Morahan.
I've likely left out someone obvious but it is 4am and I've had a few.
ripper868
International Coach
Oh and stoked with the Aussie conference, pity reds are going to run last in the conference but thats richie G for you. Things boding well to claim the RWC as is tradition each time it's in the UK (seriously - 91, 99 both in UK, both wallabies triumphs, you know it makes sense)y If i get over
PS Brumby (and the rest of the UK based rugby followers/nutters/casual observers who drink beer) I'll be doing my darndest to either get a job with the RWC or at least volunteer in some capacity so beers will be a must if/when this happens.
PS Brumby (and the rest of the UK based rugby followers/nutters/casual observers who drink beer) I'll be doing my darndest to either get a job with the RWC or at least volunteer in some capacity so beers will be a must if/when this happens.
Magrat Garlick
Global Moderator
What's happened to O'Connor? Taken up modelling?
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Seems forever ago, he kept committing indescretions and then quitting rugby and then coming back to it and then committing more indescretions and being ruled out.
Here is the latest article http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...g-wallabies-star/story-fnii0ksb-1226895272798
ripper868
International Coach
Playing in Europe and therefore in eligible for wallaby selection. His only way back now seems to be through the Reds, and I don't think Rich Graham (at force when JoC went to Rebels) or Sam Cordingley (was at rebels and saw first hand JOCs ****ery) are going to offer a lifeline. Mckenzie has also come out and basically said JoC got himself into the mess so he can make his own way out of it if he wants to play at RWC 2015.
I forgot Jesse Mogg who I'd have as 4th choice fullback - needs to tackle though. I'd have JOC on a wing and strongly believe that's his best position, he's an elusive and strong runner with a good boot. I don't think he is a 10or12 despite what his ego (and Robbie deans ego) wanted him to be
I forgot Jesse Mogg who I'd have as 4th choice fullback - needs to tackle though. I'd have JOC on a wing and strongly believe that's his best position, he's an elusive and strong runner with a good boot. I don't think he is a 10or12 despite what his ego (and Robbie deans ego) wanted him to be
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Loved the nuances to your post Ripper. Smashing read.
Cooper seems to get shut down by the faster pace of International rugby. That said in his last couple of International games I saw (can't even remember the opposition - just remember him) he started to look more assured so who knows maybe he has turned a corner. The Australian coach has faith in him so lets see how he goes.
Hanging out for the Four Nations.
As for Cooper of the Ashley variety he holds his own but I have never in 5 years of watching him seen him do a single line break against any team named NZ. I will be keenly watching Kuridrani this weekend and will make more comments then. At least we aren't discussing the one dimensional Pat McCabe so things have advanced considerably for the Wallabies.
As for McCalman I will take your word for him. However he is the form number 8 in all of Super Rugby (not just the Aussie teams).
On O'Connor - his defensive awareness is horrible. Keep him out of the team. If I need to elaborate - he drifts in from his wing to the ball carrier and leaves his opposite wing unmarked. He would be better served to let the cover defence scamper across to take the ball carrier.
Cooper seems to get shut down by the faster pace of International rugby. That said in his last couple of International games I saw (can't even remember the opposition - just remember him) he started to look more assured so who knows maybe he has turned a corner. The Australian coach has faith in him so lets see how he goes.
Hanging out for the Four Nations.
As for Cooper of the Ashley variety he holds his own but I have never in 5 years of watching him seen him do a single line break against any team named NZ. I will be keenly watching Kuridrani this weekend and will make more comments then. At least we aren't discussing the one dimensional Pat McCabe so things have advanced considerably for the Wallabies.
As for McCalman I will take your word for him. However he is the form number 8 in all of Super Rugby (not just the Aussie teams).
On O'Connor - his defensive awareness is horrible. Keep him out of the team. If I need to elaborate - he drifts in from his wing to the ball carrier and leaves his opposite wing unmarked. He would be better served to let the cover defence scamper across to take the ball carrier.