Official Rugby Thread

[BoyBrumby]

Pool B looks the stiffest with three former semi-finalists in it, although Samoa or Fiji could (again) make life difficult for the leekists.

[Hurricane]

Anyone that has seen Giteau kick for the last 18 months would've put money on it

Only being selected on reputation and should never be allowed near a kick at goal again for the Wallabies

He had the leading kicking average in the super 14 this year. 86% or something Carter was only around 75% - he must be stinking for the Wallabies only.

[Somerset]

Anyone that has seen Giteau kick for the last 18 months would've put money on it

Only being selected on reputation and should never be allowed near a kick at goal again for the Wallabies

Thats a bit harsh IMO - he kicked 6/6 against Fiji and before the last two misses tonight (the first from relatively wide out on the left hand touchline) hadn't exactly kicked poorly. That stat in the Super 14 is fairly interesting too. I do see your point though (e.g. the poor display against Scotland last year) but do feel your final comment is a bit unfair.

[Hurricane]

Pool B looks the stiffest with three former semi-finalists in it, although Samoa or Fiji could (again) make life difficult for the leekists.

Samoa and Fiji blow hot and cold. So if they are on form which one of them will undoubtedly be it could be an exciting group. I am sure that Gatland will take the games seriously though. His job will be on the line.

[BoyBrumby]

Think sometimes the raw success stats are a little misleading as to a kicker's mettle. Chris Paterson's rate is amazing, but he generally only takes the gimmes for Scotland. Anything slightly tricky he passes on to Parks.

Now Giteau's was a gimme, but something went wrong. Clearly not his technique so looks a bit like it's a mental flaw.

[Hurricane]

Thats a bit harsh IMO - he kicked 6/6 against Fiji and before the last two misses tonight (the first from relatively wide out on the left hand touchline) hadn't exactly kicked poorly. That stat in the Super 14 is fairly interesting too. I do see your point though (e.g. the poor display against Scotland last year) but do feel your final comment is a bit unfair.

Yeah I feel they should persist with Giteau for a few more games. He has been a good servant of Aussie rugby. If they do take away his goal kicking duties then it is questionable if he should be picked ahead of Barnes at second five. At least Aussie is spoiled for choice at the moment.

I am not really sure how they lost this game. Just a few moments of individual brilliance from the English. Which is funny because you don't associate game breaking plays with the English. Wilkinson's kick from 40 odd metres proved to be vital as well.

Both sides were even up front. The Aussies were efficient - and the English just quietly did their jobs.

[Hurricane]

1(1) NEW ZEALAND 91.68
2(2) SOUTH AFRICA 89.46
3(3) AUSTRALIA 85.71
4(4) FRANCE 84.91
5(5) IRELAND 82.61
6(7) ENGLAND 79.95
7(6) ARGENTINA 78.89
8(8) WALES 78.58
9(9) SCOTLAND 78.47
10(10) FIJI 76.07
11(11) ITALY 72.97
12(12) SAMOA 72.39
13(13) JAPAN 70.42
14(14) CANADA 69.43
15(16) GEORGIA 68.09
16(17) USA 67.86
17(15) TONGA 67.81
18(18) ROMANIA 65.10
19(19) RUSSIA 64.64
20(20) URUGUAY 62.37

Seems a bit lame that NZ are number 1 - should be SA given they won the tri nations. Looking at this - it really is an upset that England won today. Well done England.

I must say that Robbie Deans has a poor record as coach. I am glad we didn't pick him for the All Blacks. I have a grudge against him anyways - he was involved with the decision to play Leon Mcdonald at centre in the semifinal in the 2003 world cup.

[BoyBrumby]

Think Easter & Croft having better games was crucial. We got decent yardage out of Easter's (& Lawes's) carries and Croft was a beast in the line-out and the break downs.

But Youngs made a massive difference. We might finally have found Dawson's long term successor. Has the most complete game out of the many candidates we've tried.

Should also be noted that both our successful pens in the second half came from pressure at scrums too. Was a closer contest in the tight this week, but we still won it fairly comfortably.

[Somerset]

Seems a bit lame that NZ are number 1 - should be SA given they won the tri nations. Looking at this - it really is an upset that England won today. Well done England.

I must say that Robbie Deans has a poor record as coach. I am glad we didn't pick him for the All Blacks. I have a grudge against him anyways - he was involved with the decision to play Leon Mcdonald at centre in the semifinal in the 2003 world cup.

I tend to agree that South Africa wouldn't be undeserving of a spot at the top of the rankings though I think they fell down by having a poor end of year tour last year, losing to France and Ireland (and two midweek matches) - from memory they were in first place before that tour. In saying that, it does feel a bit strange to be ahead of a side which defeated us three times in the 2009 Tri Nations, and in which has a franchise which has won the previous two Super 14 titles.

As for Deans, he can only select the players he can work with. He was brilliant for the Crusaders and when Australia settles on a cohesive backline and gets back a front row which can scrummage, they'll most likely be a handful. His record isn't great, admittedly, though would Australia really have performed better under another coach? Keep in mind they did manage to beat England and Wales away from home last year, draw with a strong Irish side, and would've beaten Scotland if Giteau hadn't had a kicking nightmare - they also beat South Africa in 2009, something we couldn't manage.

[Somerset]

Samoa and Fiji blow hot and cold. So if they are on form which one of them will undoubtedly be it could be an exciting group. I am sure that Gatland will take the games seriously though. His job will be on the line.

Half the issue with the Samoas, Fijis, etc. is actually putting a full-strength team on the park. Its a bit difficult to read too much into their pre-World Cup matches with their top players tied up in Europe. Almost a surprise to actually see Caucau appearing for Fiji a few weeks ago. I guess they'd also benefit if the likes of Isa Nacewa pledged their allegiance to actually playing rather than continually bringing up the eligibility rules.

Yeah I feel they should persist with Giteau for a few more games. He has been a good servant of Aussie rugby. If they do take away his goal kicking duties then it is questionable if he should be picked ahead of Barnes at second five. At least Aussie is spoiled for choice at the moment.

I am not really sure how they lost this game. Just a few moments of individual brilliance from the English. Which is funny because you don't associate game breaking plays with the English. Wilkinson's kick from 40 odd metres proved to be vital as well.

Both sides were even up front. The Aussies were efficient - and the English just quietly did their jobs.

Giteau's still easily a first choice player - would start him at 10 though. I rate Barnes a class international player at 12 and can't say the same for Cooper at 10. Both sides were even up front - really? Australia still looked terrible in the front row and conceeded a few crucial penalties. There just wasn't as many scrums as last week which minimised the damage. England's loose forwards were also more prominent IMO.

Think Easter & Croft having better games was crucial. We got decent yardage out of Easter's (& Lawes's) carries and Croft was a beast in the line-out and the break downs.

But Youngs made a massive difference. We might finally have found Dawson's long term successor. Has the most complete game out of the many candidates we've tried.

Should also be noted that both our successful pens in the second half came from pressure at scrums too. Was a closer contest in the tight this week, but we still won it fairly comfortably.

Hadn't seen Youngs play before but for a 20-year old was very impressive. Would start with Wilkinson too, I'm not sure of the benefits of using Flood ahead of him (besides giving another flyhalf international exposure as insurance if Wilkinson doesn't make the 2011 World Cup). Will be interested to see what side the English name to face the Maori on Wednesday - the NZ Maori is not a side to be underestimated (beating Ireland on Friday), with the likes of Hosea Gear, McAlister, Flynn, Messam and a collection of promising and young Super 14 players.

[social]

Thats a bit harsh IMO - he kicked 6/6 against Fiji and before the last two misses tonight (the first from relatively wide out on the left hand touchline) hadn't exactly kicked poorly. That stat in the Super 14 is fairly interesting too. I do see your point though (e.g. the poor display against Scotland last year) but do feel your final comment is a bit unfair.

His general form in the Super 14 was extremely average (on par with Barnes' IMO) and he is extremely lucky to be in the side

However, on the kicking side, there's no point being surprised when history repeats itself

The fact is that Oz have a number of alternatives (O'Connor, Cooper, Ashley-Cooper etc) and Giteau has once again proven that he shouldnt be the one with the responsibility

Anyway, overall I'm not that disappointed to lose this match as winning tests against any quality test side with your 3rd choice front row being pushed all over the park and conceding penalties/posession/position at the drop of a hat is never going to be easy

[JBH001]

Not often I comment on rugby in here, although I tend to watch test matches avidly, and ever since Deans' elevation to the Australian coaching job have been following the Wallabies as well (I am one of those who disagreed with Henry's re-appointment and the manner of it after the 2007 WC).

Frankly, England deserved this win as I thought they were largely the better team. Australia were strangely flat, and didnt seem able to lift in the second half either. It is fair enough that Australia were missing their first choice front row, and Horwill and Palu (although I think Brown is stepping up as a no. 8) but for me the main issue is the lack of fire and consistent physicality in the Australian forward pack. The game was really won and lost, especially in the second half, at the breakdown where the English forwards contested possession far more fiercely than their Australian counterparts. Its not the first time I've seen this happen, the most notable instance being at the end of last year's tri-nation where the AB forward pack just annihilated the Wallaby forwards who simply rolled over by the 60th minute like whipped curs. Australia are a good side, albeit seemingly forever stuck in some "youth" and "rebuilding" phase, and Deans a good coach, but the Australian forwards, I think, dont have what it takes to be serious challengers in the 2011 WC, and will not be upto par in this year's tri-nations either.

As a last comment, I've read comments that Deans should have recalled Dunning and Baxter instead of blooding three rookie front rowers at the same time. This would make sense if either of these players had ever been any good, but they were crap in their international career, Baxter especially, and would have added nothing to the Wallaby effort. Deans was right to keep them out.

[Hurricane]

Would you have picked Deans as our coach over Henry?

I wouldn't have minded Gatland as the coach if we wanted a change. But I have hard feelings against Deans. He has an average record as the Aussie coach.

[ripper868]

Sonny Bill Williams has been signed by Canterbury, will likely have his first run on July 30 vs Hawkes Bay in Canterbury.

[Somerset]

Didn't get the chance to post last night about the NZ Maori's victory over the midweek English team in Napier - a really top game of rugby, highly entertaining, and sensational to see the Maori back up a great victory over Ireland last week with another over England. Hosea Gear was outstanding with three tries though the likes of McAlister and Messam (and even Stephen Brett) have showed in the last couple of matches that they're worthy of another shot in the All Blacks IMO.