Official Rugby Thread

[TT Boy]

Both are vital if the Boks have any chance of winning the WC. Morne Steyn while being a metronome can’t function without out du Preez and Brussow’s replacements have all come up short. Big decisions need to be made on the likes of Smit and Habana and someone needs to make the 15 position their own.

 

[PhoenixFire]

So you logged into this thread just to post a troll about rugby union. Good-o.

He's got a point though. It seems to have been a lot worse this season. BBC run a clock on how much time they spend per game on the scrum and it ended up being about 9 minutes on one game (I can't remember who it was between).

I love rugby union, but it does get very tedious when the scrums are like that.

 

[Smudge]

Sure he has a point, but it was a bit of a snarky post, particularly as it showed he didn't watch the second half when Australia produced some dazzling rugby (and the Frogs some awful defence).

 

[BoyBrumby]

The scrum is an integral part of union and long may it continue. It might put off the casual fans, but to the purist there's just as much beauty in a front three gaining ascendency as there is in a SBW offload or a Cooper cut-out pass.

Part of the problem is weak refereeing of the set pieces IMHO; it doesn't take a genius to work out the weaker pack (Hi Wobblies!) will try more or less anything to avoid a square hit. Pretty sure Al Baxter has spent the majority of his test career sprawled on the grass in fact.

 

[ripper868]

Different storkes for different folks etc Brumbles.

While I appreciate the scrum and the toughness ans skill required to be in the front row, I don't enjoy when it becomes a battle between the props to see who can collapse it while getting away with the penalty.

Course having props as refs would help policee this problem, but i don't think that'll be happening anytime soon...short of brining on extra refs...now that's a way to ruin rugby...more pea blowers

EDIT: Reds Membership ad at the top of the page...win!

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

While I appreciate the scrum and the toughness ans skill required to be in the front row, I don't enjoy when it becomes a battle between the props to see who can collapse it while getting away with the penalty.

This. I advocate stopping the clock until the scrum is set. See how many scrums collapse then. These are paid pros, they should be getting the scrum set properly much more often than they are. They are using it as a flagrant opportunity for the backs to get a breather at best, and at worst are indulging in underhand shenanigans. The scrum is an integral part of rugby and it must stay, but I expect these guys who get paid the big bucks to get it right more often than they do.

 

[Somerset]

I think half the problem with the scrum is inconsistent officialdom and the engagement process. I've no idea why theres a pause called for, since the sooner the players engage the less chance of collapse there is IMO. Also, waiting so long yet penalising one team for engaging a fraction of a second early is just ridiculous; you can't expect two packs weighing in excess of 800kg to get their timing precisely right like synchronised swimmers. As for the collapses due to deliberate illegitimacies, I'm not sure what I can recommend there since the referees in the modern game have plenty of experience and surely should know which props should be penalised. Perhaps using ex-props to review the games with referees and comment on the decisions, if that isn't used already, is a method that could be adopted.

 

[Hurricane]

I guess I am not a rugby purist then. I used to enjoy scrums growing up. But due to rose tinted glasses I don't recall them collapsing as much. I would like to see fewer scrums in the game. Keep them but lets have less in my opinion. When a penalty is awarded make it impossible to elect to take a scrum. It is just an awful option to take. I have seen about 10-20 occassions where the attacking team has been hot on attack - got a penalty - taken a scrum and been penalised at the scrum and the defending team gets to clear the ball. One could laugh at this and say what a stupid decision to take the scrum. Or one could just ban taking scrums for penalties. It completely slows down the game after an exciting passage of play.

I love lineouts by the way and can't get enough of them.

Also bring back rucking.

 

[ripper868]

**** no. I'm all for scrums and if a team has a genuine advantage come scrum time why shouldn't they be allowed to choose it as an option. I'm just anti the whole falling-over-in-such-a-way-that-it-looks-to-the-ref-as-if-the-other-guy-is-responsible-for-the-collapse-so-penalise-him shenanigans that go on.

Scrums provide a great platform for the backs to attack from - since all the piggies are out of the way and there being more space for Messrs Beale, SBW, Cooper, Carter, de Jongh, Banahan etc to ply their trade.

 

[PhoenixFire]

One thing that ****s me off more than anything is scrum-halves not feeding it straight into scrums. What's the point in not giving a crap about scrum-halves basically rolling the ball straight into the feet of their second rows and then being really anal about line-outs that aren't exactly straight?

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

One thing that ****s me off more than anything is scrum-halves not feeding it straight into scrums. What's the point in not giving a crap about scrum-halves basically rolling the ball straight into the feet of their second rows and then being really anal about line-outs that aren't exactly straight?

Agreed. Bloody cheeky. But the ref is clearly concentrating on pinging one prop or another for poor timing rather than blatant gamesmanship.

Also bring back rucking.

Yeah. That'll sort out those flankers who slow the breakdown. Take that, chump.

 

[ripper868]

Do agree wrt rucking, offside/laying over the ball then polices itself

 

[Somerset]

One thing that ****s me off more than anything is scrum-halves not feeding it straight into scrums. What's the point in not giving a crap about scrum-halves basically rolling the ball straight into the feet of their second rows and then being really anal about line-outs that aren't exactly straight?

Always laugh at the one or two instances per season when halfbacks feeding scrums rugby league style are actually called out - absolutely no consistency in those decisions and if the halfback gets away with it 99% of the time, why not cheat?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Agreed with feeding and rucking. Both drive me mental. Sometimes wonder if McCaw would be quite so effective if he'd had to contend with the shoe that former greats in his position like Jones and Winterbottom had to, tbh.

Feeding endemic too, it was called once in a test I was watching (might've been Wales/Fiji) and I was genuinely surprised. Either police it or change the rules to allow it like the similarly ignored but illegal line-out lifting was.

 

[Somerset]

I guess I am not a rugby purist then. I used to enjoy scrums growing up. But due to rose tinted glasses I don't recall them collapsing as much. I would like to see fewer scrums in the game. Keep them but lets have less in my opinion. When a penalty is awarded make it impossible to elect to take a scrum. It is just an awful option to take. I have seen about 10-20 occassions where the attacking team has been hot on attack - got a penalty - taken a scrum and been penalised at the scrum and the defending team gets to clear the ball. One could laugh at this and say what a stupid decision to take the scrum. Or one could just ban taking scrums for penalties. It completely slows down the game after an exciting passage of play.

I love lineouts by the way and can't get enough of them.

Also bring back rucking.

Fully agree with your last line - I actually saw a little bit of rucking in the ITM Cup this year, and the refs seemed to tolerate it since the players being rucked they were penalising anyway.

I don't really agree with your main comment. Teams are selected based on various strategies and whether you include sluggish tight forwards who are excellent scrummagers or mobile tight forwards who thrive on an expansive game is at a team's discretion to try and select their best all-round side to beat the opposition. My viewpoint is just because its not "pretty" rugby to watch scrums shouldn't mean that the scrums should be done away with at all opportunities. In theory, the better sides should knock the ball on less regularly than poorer sides so the best rugby matches involving the best sides shouldn't be dominated by scrums anyway - particularly in good conditions and on the brilliant grounds test matches are played on (Cardiff a notable exception to that last comment).

 

[Hurricane]

Fully agree with your last line - I actually saw a little bit of rucking in the ITM Cup this year, and the refs seemed to tolerate it since the players being rucked they were penalising anyway.

I don't really agree with your main comment. Teams are selected based on various strategies and whether you include sluggish tight forwards who are excellent scrummagers or mobile tight forwards who thrive on an expansive game is at a team's discretion to try and select their best all-round side to beat the opposition. My viewpoint is just because its not "pretty" rugby to watch scrums shouldn't mean that the scrums should be done away with at all opportunities. In theory, the better sides should knock the ball on less regularly than poorer sides so the best rugby matches involving the best sides shouldn't be dominated by scrums anyway - particularly in good conditions and on the brilliant grounds test matches are played on (Cardiff a notable exception to that last comment).

Scrums are not only not pretty to watch but they ruin the momentum of the game.

I guess if you have played rugby your whole life you might view them as essential. I have only played in like 5 games in my life and was a wing. So don't really value them.
I know I am not alone in this view. I think if you did a survey at least 30% of fans would agree with me. Running rugby is what fans want to see. That is why we put in the 5 point try. Scrums are not running rugby.

Yes I have seen teams win the games at scrum time. But I don't care for it.

To Ripper's point. How many tries are actually scored from back plays that follow a scrum. I have seen push over scrums - and half backs sneaking over from 5 metres out. But tries where the backs score from scrums are few and far between. Most tries come from second or third phase ball or broken play.

I reckon you have as much chance as scoring from just tapping the ball and running it up following a penalty.

Anyways to each their own. But I vote against scrums from penalties.

 

[Somerset]

Scrums are not only not pretty to watch but they ruin the momentum of the game.

I guess if you have played rugby your whole life you might view them as essential. I have only played in like 5 games in my life and was a wing. So don't really value them.
I know I am not alone in this view. I think if you did a survey at least 30% of fans would agree with me. Running rugby is what fans want to see. That is why we put in the 5 point try. Scrums are not running rugby.

Yes I have seen teams win the games at scrum time. But I don't care for it.

I think with the amount of times spent on scrum resets that percentage would be at least 30%, if not higher. I wouldn't argue that at present the scrums in international (and indeed ITM Cup/Super Rugby level) are a bit of a mess with the awarding of penalties somewhat of a lottery, but I will argue that they should remain an integral part of rugby. I do see your point though and I imagine you'd have plenty of support from backs waiting for the ball to free up from scrums.

To Ripper's point. How many tries are actually scored from back plays that follow a scrum. I have seen push over scrums - and half backs sneaking over from 5 metres out. But tries where the backs score from scrums are few and far between. Most tries come from second or third phase ball or broken play.

I reckon you have as much chance as scoring from just tapping the ball and running it up following a penalty.

Anyways to each their own. But I vote against scrums from penalties.

I think the amount of tries from a scrum set piece has certainly increased in recent times with the rule changed to force defensive backlines 5m back from the scrum. I remember the Bulls in Super 14 scoring a number of tries with backline moves from setpiece this year, and although not technically a true backline move, Richie McCaw scoring a crucial try in the Bledisloe Cup in Australia.

If a team's hot on attack and has momentum, then you often see them opt for a quick tap anyway, and indeed score a try if they're good enough - but if your team's scattered and the opposition is equipped on defence, I think a scrum (or line-out) is a better attacking set piece option.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

There have been plenty of tries scored from set piece this year. The Wallaby backline scored from a scrum in Hong Kong, for example. The scrum provides a better attacking platform than a tap and go. They tried that option with the ELVs and it was awful. Eventually, the IRB will fix the scrum like they did the tackle law.

 

[Furball]

Best interview ever:

YouTube - Brendan Venter's interview after a defeat to Racing Metro

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Random question, but does anyone know Ma'a Nonu's chest measurement?

I've got to write a best man speech and one story I was going to tell was how the groom was convinced he has a bigger chest than Ma'a Nonu. Thought it might add something to do a measure and compare as part of the speech.