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Official Rugby Thread

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
I gaurantee that come the world cup he will play with more smarts and not do anything stupid.
You overrate his intelligence. He is more of a liability than an advantage to the Boks these days. The problem now for Botha is that people know if they wind him up, he'll go out of his way to do something breathtakingly stupid. I wouldn't want him on my ABs team. He's like Brad Thorn, but without the streetsmarts nowadays.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Interesting to see South Africa retain all but the same starting XV as the first test - Roussow in for the suspended Botha and CJ van der Linde for Jannie du Plessis; the latter being injury related but might as well have been for performance. Thought there may have been a switch in the backline - Jean de Villiers is outstanding in the midfield and I think he offers more than Olivier so I would've played de Villiers at 12 and brought in a specialist to the wing. Might've also suggested changes to the Springbok loose forward trio which was outplayed on Saturday.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Bakkies' ruggedness > Thorn's presence.

Thorn has strong christian beliefs and as such he is not an enforcer type player.

Bakkies picked up Conrad Smith like a rag doll and carried him along like a 7 year old child for 5 metres when Smith tried to tackle him.

Thorn does not play with an edge.

I am thinking of putting $5 on the ABs for tomorrow. In part because Botha is out of the line up.

Jean de Villiers is outstanding in the midfield and I think he offers more than Olivier so I would've played de Villiers at 12 and brought in a specialist to the wing.
Any change to the SA midfield would be an improvement from last week. They were largely anonymous. Regarding the play of the SA loose forwards. To my surprise the ABs created two or three turn overs at the breakdown. This gives some credence to your statement that they didn't play well.

For reasons that I can't quite fathom the ABs had the perfect tactics and mentality for the game. Like I said before the new laws this season suited them down to the ground. SA play terrific 10 men rugby so they will be lamenting the new rules. Hats off to Graham Henry who really did a job getting them ready.
Happy we don't have Deans.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Lineup riddle at second-five - sport - the-press | Stuff.co.nz

Looks like sbw is not guaranteed a spot with cantabs. May have to play on the wing. May be that he chose the wrong team to go to?
I wondered when an article like this might appear. Ryan Crotty and Adam Whitelock aren't overly flashy players but they're committed and proven performers in the centres. I rate Crotty in particular. If SBW does get stuck on the wing I doubt he'll be that impressed given his desire to play for the All Blacks and the current depth in wingers - Hosea Gear can't even make the squad and Sivivatu is injured! Not that I care much about SBW - as far as I'm concerned hes part of a squad which picks its best XV, and if that means hes picked to play on the wing each week, or start on the bench, then so be it.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Bakkies' ruggedness > Thorn's presence.

Thorn has strong christian beliefs and as such he is not an enforcer type player.

Bakkies picked up Conrad Smith like a rag doll and carried him along like a 7 year old child for 5 metres when Smith tried to tackle him.

Thorn does not play with an edge.

I am thinking of putting $5 on the ABs for tomorrow. In part because Botha is out of the line up.
I think you underestimate Thorn - I see your point regarding Botha's ruggedness but disagree that Thorn isn't an enforcer; he just does that part of the game legally whereas Botha is prone to using, well, unorthodox measures.

Any change to the SA midfield would be an improvement from last week. They were largely anonymous. Regarding the play of the SA loose forwards. To my surprise the ABs created two or three turn overs at the breakdown. This gives some credence to your statement that they didn't play well.

For reasons that I can't quite fathom the ABs had the perfect tactics and mentality for the game. Like I said before the new laws this season suited them down to the ground. SA play terrific 10 men rugby so they will be lamenting the new rules. Hats off to Graham Henry who really did a job getting them ready.
Happy we don't have Deans.
Agree that the new law interpretations (rather than new laws) are suiting the All Blacks' style. Keen in mind though, that all of these players (besides Jean de Villiers, Butch James and CJ van der Linde) played under those interpretations in Super 14 and two South African sides contested the final. The Stormers seemed to benefit particularly from those interpretations which increased their willingness to run with the ball in hand. I think you'll see a better display from South Africa this week; I think they'll be more direct and have Steyn, rather than Januarie do all of the kicking - personally I'd be telling Januarie to spread the ball at every opportunity, and get the likes of Habana, Fourie, de Villiers in the play as much as possible. Without being too cynical they might also slow the All Blacks' ball down more - I remember a statistic late in last week's game in which the Springboks had conceeded just three penalties to ten - and ensure they don't give away another four tries.
 

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
Ah yeah. Still makes sense.

Where's Pienaar gone? Now that SA actually need a half-decent scrum-half instead of shovelling him into more creative positions where his nerves take over :dry:
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Ah yeah. Still makes sense.

Where's Pienaar gone? Now that SA actually need a half-decent scrum-half instead of shovelling him into more creative positions where his nerves take over :dry:
I don't rate Januarie that highly TBH - and if I were taking a South African point of view would prefer Pienaar or Duvenhage (who started in front of Januarie for most of the Stormers' matches anyway) for du Preez's spot whilst hes absent. I think the issue with Pienaar is that hes proven to be so versatile in the past that having him focus on one spot, i.e.halfback, it could be seen as a waste of his potential to cover the other spots - he reminds me somewhat of how Isaia Toeava was seen in the Blues and All Blacks a few years ago.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah...good point...:huh:

Like saying Jonah Lomu likes loud music and therefore is not a class winger.
Do you think Jesus would have made a good enforcer in a rugby match? Or do you think it would have been outside of his moral value system.

Somerset feels that Thorn can be an enforcer by staying within the rules of the game. Is this the same point you are trying to make?

I am suggesting that an enforcer needs to willing to deck someone from time to time. This is an unchristian attitude to have. If my memory serves me correctly Murray Mexted has questioned Thorn as an enforcer as well.
 

ripper868

International Coach
Bakkies Botha 'is a nutter' | Stuff.co.nz

By all accounts, Botha is a decent bloke – when not wearing rugby boots.

A religious and devoted family man, he has, in the past, said all the right things about the need to have an edge to his game – but denied that he deliberately goes out to maim opponents
Botha religous as well mate.

I find saying this bloke is religious therfore can't be an enforcer laughable. Comparing Thorn to Jesus just stupid. Jesus can't play rugby for a number of reasons.

I agree with Somers that Thorn is an enforcer on the field and within the rules, don't need to belt blokes illegally to be an enforcer IMO.

Enforcers of Bakkies style are a dime a dozen, anyone can land a cheap shot, blokes like Thorn and others like him are quality...will lay a bloke out in a tackle/clean out and just as quickly help him back to their feet (when warranted).
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Bakkies Botha 'is a nutter' | Stuff.co.nz

Botha religous as well mate.

I find saying this bloke is religious therfore can't be an enforcer laughable. Comparing Thorn to Jesus just stupid. Jesus can't play rugby for a number of reasons.
Fair play to you - Touche and all that.
I think that Botha has some confessions and forgiveness to ask for. I think thou shall not head butt is the 11th commandment.:ph34r:

I think my Jesus example is fine. Christians live by the motto "what would Jesus Do". So it is pretty standard to imagine Jesus in a given hypothetical scenario even though he died 2000 years ago.

Not going to press my point however as it has been weakened by your quote about Botha tbh. Good research.

In other news - I have put 5 ill advised dollars on SA after all. I am figuring that the weather is going to stop the AB running game. Fully prepared to lose my money it is just $5.
 

ripper868

International Coach
Fair play to you - Touche and all that.
I think that Botha has some confessions and forgiveness to ask for. I think thou shall not head butt is the 11th commandment.:ph34r:

I think my Jesus example is fine. Christians live by the motto "what would Jesus Do". So it is pretty standard to imagine Jesus in a given hypothetical scenario even though he died 2000 years ago.
I'm just having a laugh with you mate :) however, wiki agrees with me that Jesus can't play rugby for a number of reasons (language Warning): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Saves_(song)


Best wishes with the bet, only being $5 makes it a bit more interesting

EDIT: that was not a shoulder charge by ranger...case of the man being played for the penalty
And the Boks make it Interesting
 
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Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Two average calls from Rolland, the yellow card for Roussouw and the penalty from Ranger's "shoulder charge", crucial in the match given both teams took advantage to score points from those decisions. Given the weather conditions a decent match. Piri Weepu particularly prominent on his return to the side, and Kieran Read again excellent.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
ABs ball handling >> Springboks
ABs breakdown >> Springboks
ABs tactics > Springboks
AB lineout = Springbok line out (although SA came on the second half)
McCaw and Read were standouts.
AB loose forwards >> SA loose forwards

Piennar played well when he came on. He got the ball out to the backs more quickly that Januarie.

Can't get over the turn around since last year. New law interpretations and all that.
 

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