Stadiums of Hate

[Scaly piscine]

Figured there'll be plenty of incidents in the tournament that fit the bill, so I've left the thread title a little more generic.

I have been watching the Panorama document on the BBC entitled Stadiums of Hate. Err yea, Nazi-ism still alive and well then. Slightly comedic bit where the Oxbridge toff goes 'bloody hell' but it's just nuts...

[grecian]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

Figured there'll be plenty of incidents in the tournament that fit the bill, so I've left the thread title a little more generic.

I have been watching the Panorama document on the BBC entitled Stadiums of Hate. Err yea, Nazi-ism still alive and well then. Slightly comedic bit where the Oxbridge toff goes 'bloody hell' but it's just nuts...

It was fairly shocking wasn't it? Another reason why I'm not really up for this Tournament, roll on the Olympics.....

[fredfertang]

Strikes me as slightly odd that neo-nazism should be alive and well in the Ukraine - perhaps it was all just too long ago

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by fredfertang

Strikes me as slightly odd that neo-nazism should be alive and well in the Ukraine - perhaps it was all just too long ago

Bear in mind that the Eastern Bloc suffered for decades under Russian rule and that Hitler's armies "liberated" the populations of the Soviet Union...Hitler and Nazism aren't as reviled in the Eastern Bloc as they are in Western Europe.

It's the Poles that surprised me more, although given that Poland is about 99% Polish it doesn't surprise me that they're not too keen on "foreigners". The role of a large part of the Polish population in the Holocaust also tends to get a bit swept under the carpet because Hitler quite liked murdering a lot of Poles as well.

[cpr]

Meh, Poles will leave us alone, or we'll sack their uncles and the money home will stop. Ikkinomics

[fredfertang]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

Bear in mind that the Eastern Bloc suffered for decades under Russian rule and that Hitler's armies "liberated" the populations of the Soviet Union...Hitler and Nazism aren't as reviled in the Eastern Bloc as they are in Western Europe.

It's the Poles that surprised me more, although given that Poland is about 99% Polish it doesn't surprise me that they're not too keen on "foreigners". The role of a large part of the Polish population in the Holocaust also tends to get a bit swept under the carpet because Hitler quite liked murdering a lot of Poles as well.

Oh I appreciate that in the early part of WW2 there were plenty of Ukrainians who saw the Germans as liberators - I was more surprised in light of the indoctrination that then went on in schools during the USSR era

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by fredfertang

Oh I appreciate that in the early part of WW2 there were plenty of Ukrainians who saw the Germans as liberators - I was more surprised in light of the indoctrination that then went on in schools during the USSR era

True, but if we accept that the typical Ultra will be male and in his 20s, the vast majority of them would have been schooled after the fall of the Soviet Union, and the younger Ultras in the 16-21 age bracket won't even remember the Soviet Union as it fell before they were even born.

[TT Boy]

Prior to the World Cup every football fan was highly susceptible to being robbed, raped and killed according to the UK media while going to the idyllic countries of Poland and Ukraine according to Sol Campbell, a player who received death threats and homophobic and racist taunts while playing in England, you will be coming home in a coffin.

I suspect if Panorama did an expose on football fans in the UK, took their cameras to say Ibrox and recorded their supporters signing hits such as “The famine Is over so why don’t you go home?” or travelled with them to Israel, where Rangers fans did one armed salutes, a similar faux opinion of football fans in the UK will be formed?

2014 World Cup, Rio slums use stock footage from Ross Kemp on Gangs as the World Cup will take place in those slums like the 2010 WC was hosted in the Cape Flats. 2018 World Cup, Russia, Danny Dyer went there, didn't he? Have Chris Samba on saying a banana was thrown at him while showing footage of a Chinese immigrant being brutality beat up by a bunch of thugs on the Moscow metro as that's relevant to watching football games abroad.

[sledger]

Granted the footage shown wasn't good, but this was a very BBC style documentary, if you get what I mean. To be taken with a pinch of salt.

[grecian]

I think one of the worst aspects of it was the Ukrainian Official denying there was anything racist going on. The attack on the Asian students, was utterly unprovoked and there seemed to be no help from stewards. There are scum supporters everywhere, but where there is head in sand stuff from authorities, how will it get better.

I'm not quite sure why TTBoy is trivialising it, won't make it go away. Did you actually watch it?

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by TT Boy

I suspect if Panorama did an expose on football fans in the UK, took their cameras to say Ibrox and recorded their supporters signing hits such as “The famine Is over so why don’t you go home?” or travelled with them to Israel, where Rangers fans did one armed salutes, a similar faux opinion of football fans in the UK will be formed?

You're aware that song was written by an Irishman, aren't you?

I'm aware that I'm going to sound like that Ukranian cop, but those weren't Nazi salutes, although it's ****ing cringeworthy. Because to the rest of the population, people are going to use the "if it looks like a duck" logic, and it doesn't look good.

[TT Boy]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

You're aware that song was written by an Irishman, aren't you?

I'm aware that I'm going to sound like that Ukranian cop, but those weren't Nazi salutes, although it's ****ing cringeworthy. Because to the rest of the population, people are going to use the "if it looks like a duck" logic, and it doesn't look good.

Written? Insert racist lyrics onto the tune of a Beach Boys song.

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by grecian

I think one of the worst aspects of it was the Ukrainian Official denying there was anything racist going on. The attack on the Asian students, was utterly unprovoked and there seemed to be no help from stewards. There are scum supporters everywhere, but where there is head in sand stuff from authorities, how will it get better.

Same old same old. 20 to 30 years ago over here, the responses to racism in Englsih grounds were firstly to pretend it wasn't happening, eventually to admit that it was happening but it's only a small minority, and finally to claim that it was society's problem, so please don't expect clubs supposed to do anything about it.

The depressing response from the Ukrainian official claiming that the BC report is bogus suggests that they are happy to be in stage 1 at the moment, so I shouldn't hold you breath about any action being taken. Recent incidents in Western Europe and the pitiful measures taken by UEFA give a fair idea of where things are at.

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by TT Boy

Written? Insert racist lyrics onto the tune of a Beach Boys song.

I'm trying work out which song. If it's Sloop John B, which kind of fits, the Beach Boys didn't write it.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by TT Boy

Written? Insert racist lyrics onto the tune of a Beach Boys song.

Regardless, it was done by an Irishman.