***Official*** Road to Euro 2012

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by Nnanden

I disagree. While there might be a few things I don't think you have (a system the players are comfortable with, desire to win, a right back haha), one thing I believe you have is the talent. Maybe not to be the best in the world, but around the Top Eight.

I just don't see any cohesion with the England unit, which after thee (?) years of being here, I would have thought Capello would bring.

I see cohesion with Australia frbs, and we don't have anywhere near the talent you do.

It's hard to get a cohesive unit because you're playing with different players in a different system and Capello gets the players for a week max 4 or 5 times a season.

The reason Spain are such a cohesive unit is because 6 or 7 of them play together at Barcelona. All the great national sides have been based around a core of players who play together at club level.

[vcs]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

It's hard to get a cohesive unit because you're playing with different players in a different system and Capello gets the players for a week max 4 or 5 times a season.

The reason Spain are such a cohesive unit is because 6 or 7 of them play together at Barcelona. All the great national sides have been based around a core of players who play together at club level.

Wasn't the case with France '98-'00, was it?

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by grecian

Okay. I'll bite, WTF is Capello meant to do, we've got ****e players, the ones who are less ****e can't be bothered to play for us. Lampard and Ferdinand may well of phoned their performances in today. Johnson, Baines, Downing, these people would barely get in Scotlands side.

We need to totally over-haul our game at the youth level, emphasizing skills and technique, not strength and endeavor, or else we'll carry on falling behind. There has been talk of this happening, but I'm yet to see any results.

We're **** and the more talk about it being down to foreign players and managers is just taking the attention away from the points that matter. Actually pretty allegorical of all British life ATM.

Even if they master the Strength,Pace,Fitness and Endeavour aspect they would do pretty well.
The whole Emphasising Skill and Technique thing is a bit overplayed in the English media specially since Spain and Barca etc... started doing well.

Every country has to find a distinct style that suits their players best and have the players to fully implement it and they would do well if they are cohesive at it.
Don't have to play tippy tappy keep possesion football only.And as Arsenal would tell you even that is not succesful at all levels.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by vcs

Wasn't the case with France '98-'00, was it?

Doubt the Brazillians have had many players playing together at one side for the last 3 decades atleast either or maybe more.Even the Argentinians.

Obviously it helps Spain that there are so many Barca players, but it is not something which has not been overcome in the past.

[grecian]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Even if they master the Strength,Pace,Fitness and Endeavour aspect they would do pretty well.
The whole Emphasising Skill and Technique thing is a bit overplayed in the English media specially since Spain and Barca etc... started doing well.

Every country has to find a distinct style that suits their players best and have the players to fully implement it and they would do well if they are cohesive at it.
Don't have to play tippy tappy keep possesion football only.And as Arsenal would tell you even that is not succesful at all levels.

I've been going on about it for years, I've watched us at countless tournaments, not even be able to do the basics right. The thing is we used to be able to get by, with the strength and endeavor, but now all top-class teams are incredibly fit as well. So our other weaknesses are coming even more to the fore. If you don't retain possesion in modern football, you get found out. Nobody is asking us to become Spain, but just keeping the ball for more then 3 passes would do me. Name one successful National side in the modern era, that didn't keep the ball. Even Greece did it better then us when they won the Euros.

[cpr]

Alot of Englands style of play is get it to the frontman as fast as possible so we can surprise an attack. Its about as surprising as a Richard comment on First Chance Average, and about as enjoyable. Our midfields job half the time is to pick up the long punts that fell short. Alas Rio, for a his 'nice-footwork-for-a-defender', is usually the worst culprit for club and country, and even when he's out, the mentality is still there.

[Uppercut]

It was shown up particularly badly yesterday because Switzerland did it so much better than England despite being a very ordinary side.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by vcs

Wasn't the case with France '98-'00, was it?

The side which won the World Cup was vastly different (and inferior) to the side which won Euro 2000.

Originally Posted by Cevno

Doubt the Brazillians have had many players playing together at one side for the last 3 decades atleast either or maybe more.Even the Argentinians.

Obviously it helps Spain that there are so many Barca players, but it is not something which has not been overcome in the past.

I'm talking about sides that have had sustained success over a period of time.

In the last 40 years that narrows it down to essentially 3 sides - Holland 74-78, West Germany 72-76, and Spain 07-present.

[Uppercut]

So basically all of the successful international sides had a body of players that played together at club level. Apart from the ones that didn't.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

So basically all of the successful international sides had a body of players that played together at club level. Apart from the ones that didn't.

The sides that have had sustained success.

[Uppercut]

Like Holland '74-'78. They won loads and loads and loads of trophies. Unlike Brazil '94-'02.

You're being a bit silly.

[BoyBrumby]

I really don't know how it's happened, but England are somehow 4th in the FIFA rankings.

Given our last two competitive home games result in draws against the might of Montenegro and Switzerland, the combined population of both being about half of London's, this strikes me as a slight anomaly. Could anyone explain? Vimes? Mr P?

[marc71178]

I believe we paid the 4th highest amount to FIFA's ranking man - no other logical answer.

[Samuel_Vimes]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

I really don't know how it's happened, but England are somehow 4th in the FIFA rankings.

Given our last two competitive home games result in draws against the might of Montenegro and Switzerland, the combined population of both being about half of London's, this strikes me as a slight anomaly. Could anyone explain? Vimes? Mr P?

The rankings are weighted towards the last 12 months, and give a bonus to teams not playing friendlies. As the South American sides have spent the past 12 months doing that, their ranking is artificially low for a month until Copa America matches go on the computer.

I also note the position of Norway, who has not qualified for a major tournament this millennium, but are nevertheless among the top nine in Europe and will thus be top seeds in the 2014 World Cup qualification.

[Stapel]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

All the great national sides have been based around a core of players who play together at club level.

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

In the last 40 years that narrows it down to essentially 3 sides - Holland 74-78, West Germany 72-76, and Spain 07-present.

Would you care to enlighten me which core of players played together at club level? and for which club?

Please do not say Ajax, as I am very happy to point out that of the 1978 Dutch WC team, only 3 players of the 22-men selection played for Ajax. In 1974, it was 6 out of 22. Three of them were in the defense line-up.


I have to agree with uppercut here.