Yuvraj Or Chopra

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Nor do I, by any stretch - but equally I do consider someone who has scored so few runs in 15 innings a failure.
That does not, of course, mean he can't redress that - we've seen some people do that, Stephen Waugh for one example.
I also liked Ramesh - but equally I simply cannot fathom why Sriram has never played a Test when so many inferiors of his have been tried (such as Devang Gandhi).

How do you know they are inferior to Sriram if Sriram has never played a Test?

 

[SJS]

It cant be anyone's case that Das or Ramesh or Chopra are 'great' (please dont discuss the use of the word ) openers. But in a country perpetualy struggling for a steady opening pair AND claoiming to be on the lok out for one, ALL THE TIME, these three should have been treated better than tey have been (Chopra from indications).

Just because Yuvraj is an attractive stroke player or scored a hundred against a disheartened and no-where-near-world-class attack does not make him a test player. If Yuvraj can be an opener on such specious arguments then so can Strauss, Ponting even Flintoff.

Its clear people dont even want to understand whats required of a test opener before rushing to pronounce him one.

He may score a few runs in that position, maybe even a hundred but so have others. Afridi is no opener for tests nor is Laxman who played the first of his great test ininnings as an opener in a test in Australia. An inings of extraoridinary brilliance.

By the way, how has Sriram Shridharan become an opener ? Why not Venugopal also. Look back over the last couple of years and you may be able to add to this list. Why not Kaif to open ?? Why not ??

Rahul Dravid has better credentials than most to open for India. His failures when tried is cited as an example of his unsuitability as fallaciously as can be someone like Yuvraj's success.

Srikanth was not a great opener and That is a fact. We had to have him for want of an option and because he achieved moderate success. Das, Ramesh and Chopra have achieved moderate or slightly better than moderate success too and they are better suited than Srikkant was. No reason for us to foist Yuvraj on the test team.

His sponsors are the one's who really want him there since they realise that once Sachin is fit his position is not certain and they have too much at stake with him.

Ganguly is playing ball.

 

[Arjun]

By the way, how has Sriram Shridharan become an opener ? Why not Venugopal also. Look back over the last couple of years and you may be able to add to this list. Why not Kaif to open ?? Why not ??

He was an opener for several years, until mid-2002, when he started batting at 3, and since then, has gone to 4 and lower.

Ganguly is playing ball.

Why not open with Ganguly? After all, he's opened far more often than Yuvrajm and has been more successful. Even if it is ODI cricket, he's still an opener of sorts, and more 'seasoned' than Yuvraj. Strange, he takes on the easy role of pinch-hitter and leaves the tough job of opening in Tests to a greenhorn or wicketkeeper.

 

[marc71178]

He just got a 100 in that position

Yes, but how much value is to be placed on that innings when you look at the way the Opposition attack seemed to give the game up (under orders?)

 

[marc71178]

How do you know they are inferior to Sriram if Sriram has never played a Test?

Because Richard can rate people on 1 look (or not even that) and clearly knows more about players than selectors who get many looks at the same person.

 

[Dasa]

Yes, but how much value is to be placed on that innings when you look at the way the Opposition attack seemed to give the game up (under orders?)

To be fair, Yuvraj did open a few times last season in Ranji Trophy cricket. If I remember correctly, he made a couple of hundreds as well...

edit: It seems the match I thought he opened was in the Duleep Trophy, and he was batting at no. 3. North Zone vs East Zone

 

[tooextracool]

I think yuvraj will open and I WANT yuvraj to open as well. How do you guys know he won't be a good opener unless you have seen him opening? He just got a 100 in that position.....so there's enough to suggest he will do well. He should be given a chance to open. It could be a gamble but it may pay big dividends (think sehwag)

what position does he bat in in domestic cricket?
id rather not play someone than give someone an opportunity to fail(and probably not be considered again) at a position that he is not suited to.

 

[Dasa]

^He usually bats at 3 or 4 I believe.

 

[krishneelz]

But what about the fact that these matches will probably be played in dusty Indian flat wickets? I guess for this series alone, it might not be such a bad idea to have Yuvi and Sehwag opening, but I guess a lot rides on if Sachin will play or not.

If sachin does not play it would be good to see how yuvraj performs down the order against the aussies but i dont think opening is an option for him at this point against mcgrath and dizzy. But on the flip side he isnt strong against spinners so one can imagine he will struggle against warne so either way hes screwed

 

[Arjun]

THe concept of opening the batting in longer games is flawed in India. The experts think it is all about blunting the new ball and making the task of scoring runs easier for the middle order. But why can't the openers score runs? And what if the middle order is facing the new ball? That's what has gone wrong with many promising openers in India. They are jsut told to blunt the ball and they do it, but once they're out, there are hardly any runs on the board, and the middle order have a harder task.

Chopra is one of those openers who actually scores runs, which is why he had a First-Class average of over 50 for a long time. He also had a healthy List-A batting average, which was aslo over 40. He doesn't hit too many shots, but if the team demands he does, he'll do it. He runs hard between wickets, something we didn't see much of in the Indian team in the recent past. When his partner is in form, he'll give im the strike, which is good. He's a player who will bat through the innings.

He is definitely the best FC opener in India, given his experience and superior statistics and also what we have seen of him so far. When the Indian selectors picked him, they knew whom they were picking. And they were right, since he ended the first series with an average of 46, while some more illustrious batsmen disappointed in that series. He didn't score too many in Australia, though the umpires didn't help him much, but the 100-run partnerships were made. He only had one bad series in Pakistan and didn't get the last match. Three series, one incomplete for him, are not enough to judge how good an opener he is.

 

[Richard]

Yes, but how much value is to be placed on that innings when you look at the way the Opposition attack seemed to give the game up (under orders?)

Well, it didn't exactly matter - it was a 14-a-side game!
No, I don't think it matters much, but doubtless some people will use it as a tool.

 

[Richard]

How do you know they are inferior to Sriram if Sriram has never played a Test?

Because Sriram has scored more runs at the First-Class level.
Personally I'd say someone with an average of pushing 60 is a superior of someone just averaging 50 (Chopra).

 

[Richard]

When the Indian selectors picked him, they knew whom they were picking. And they were right, since he ended the first series with an average of 46, while some more illustrious batsmen disappointed in that series.

India vs. New Zealand, Test-averages
Not many batsmen failed that series! Fleming and Tendulkar (ironically, their teams' best), and that's it.

 

[Richard]

Because Richard can rate people on 1 look (or not even that) and clearly knows more about players than selectors who get many looks at the same person.

No, I've never said that at all.
Nonetheless, Sriram must have been pretty poor whenever the Indian selectors watched him (including all those A-tours) to cancel-out a First-Class average pushing 60!

 

[marc71178]

Or could it just be that they don't think he's as good as the other's that have been tried.

An Indian FC average is far higher than most others - there must be a reason for that (ie flat pitches, poor bowling?)

 

[tooextracool]

Because Sriram has scored more runs at the First-Class level.
Personally I'd say someone with an average of pushing 60 is a superior of someone just averaging 50 (Chopra).

so by that assumption we should say that hick is one of the best players in england at the moment?
seriously how can you judge whether a certain player is good enough when you probably havent even watched him play? its quite conceivable that he might have a weakness such as heavy footedness and then 10 years later you'd be claiming that you predicted failure.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Because Sriram has scored more runs at the First-Class level.
Personally I'd say someone with an average of pushing 60 is a superior of someone just averaging 50 (Chopra).

And that's why Stuart Williams is superior to Ramnaresh Sarwan and more than 3/4 of all West Indian batsmen and Graeme Hick is superior to Brian Lara?

 

[rajams]

Give Chopra a break

Das has not been all that good.
However, he would be considered far better than he is, I'm absolutely certain, had he been involved with some of the stands of the nature Chopra has.
I fail to see how Chopra has done better than many other Indian openers - he himself has done a similar thing, others have simply not had the benefit of someone like Sehwag scoring at the pace and weight that he has done while Chopra has been there.
IMO Chopra has failed worse than many Indian openers have been given the chance to.

failed worse than many Indian openers? Who? rathore? gandhi? khoda? das? sujit somasunder? who are ya talking about? The fairest criticism of chopra could only be that he hasnt overwhelmingly succeeded yet as an opener... but he surely has done enough to prove that he isnt a failure.

And as far as the openers question goes, I guess with Sachin out of the question, there is no doubt at all. Chopra opens with sehwag and yuvraj plays at #6. And now if he proves his worth in the next two test matches and chopra still fails to convert a stubborn start into a useful innings, we try yuvraj as an opener when sachins back. Until then let cut these two guys some slack, wot say?

 

[krishneelz]

i agree

 

[Deja moo]

And that's why Stuart Williams is superior to Ramnaresh Sarwan and more than 3/4 of all West Indian batsmen and Graeme Hick is superior to Brian Lara?

Hick got his chances at the international level....Sriram hasnt.

If any player averages 10 more than what the next best players in the domestic scene average, the least one can do is to atleast give him a fair run in the national side.