Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 73

Thread: Waqar Younis

  1. #1
    U19 Debutant
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    My bedroom
    Posts
    331

    Waqar Younis

    when you all think about the best bowlers of the 90s where would you rate Waqar? and in all time fast bowelrs where would you rate him?
    Best batsman = Rahul Dravid
    Best bowler = Muttiah Muralitharan

  2. #2
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    All-time - just below the "very top" bracket. If he'd been that little bit more accurate, however, he'd be up there with Malcolm Marshall as possibly the best seamer of the comparable age (1930-onwards).
    '90s - one of a legion of great bowlers (along with Donald, Pollock, his parter Wasim, Ambrose, Walsh, Vaas, McGrath, Fleming, Streak, Srinath, Allott, Nash and, Cairns [the last three who would all IMO have been better than they turned-out but for injury]) most of whom were capable of extracting something from any surface. One of the big parts of the greatest decade for bowling in the game's history IMO.
    RD
    Appreciating cricket's greatest legend ever - HD Bird...............Funniest post (intentionally) ever.....Runner-up.....Third.....Fourth
    (Accidental) founder of Twenty20 Is Boring Society. Click and post to sign-up.
    chris.hinton: h
    FRAZ: Arshad's are a long gone stories
    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1/11/1990-15/4/2006

  3. #3
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    An Aussie with a Lancashire accent living in Keighley,West Yorks
    Posts
    7,360
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    All-time - just below the "very top" bracket. If he'd been that little bit more accurate, however, he'd be up there with Malcolm Marshall as possibly the best seamer of the comparable age (1930-onwards).
    '90s - one of a legion of great bowlers (along with Donald, Pollock, his parter Wasim, Ambrose, Walsh, Vaas, McGrath, Fleming, Streak, Srinath, Allott, Nash and, Cairns [the last three who would all IMO have been better than they turned-out but for injury]) most of whom were capable of extracting something from any surface. One of the big parts of the greatest decade for bowling in the game's history IMO.
    i am sure you say these things to stir up some sort of CW controversy.

    Those I have highlighted will not in 50 years time be looked back on as great bowlers on the international scene..merely decent enough bowlers, who on their day could do some damage
    rave down, hit the ground


    MSN: djjacksono@hotmail.com

  4. #4
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    If so it's because of them tailing-off, to different extents, in the later stages of their careers.
    Streak, especially, was a devestating bowler before a nasty injury in early 1999 - averaging 24-5 in Test-cricket.
    I'm sorry, but I genuinely believe all the bowlers I named played a large part in making the '90s the greatest decade for bowling.


  5. #5
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    An Aussie with a Lancashire accent living in Keighley,West Yorks
    Posts
    7,360
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    If so it's because of them tailing-off, to different extents, in the later stages of their careers.
    Streak, especially, was a devestating bowler before a nasty injury in early 1999 - averaging 24-5 in Test-cricket.
    I'm sorry, but I genuinely believe all the bowlers I named played a large part in making the '90s the greatest decade for bowling.
    Streak wasnt a devestating bowler before 99 he was a decent fast bowler...he had his injury in about 1996 I think(that was the real turning point in his career), before which he was genuinely fast and did tak wickets at a fair rate of knots....but this period only lasted for a fairly brief spell..certainly not long enough to be called an all time great fast bowler.

    I'm sorry but if you list Fleming,Nash,Allott and Vaas in the top dozen or so bowlers of that decade, I think maybe the 90's wasnt that strong in the fast bowling department.

    have a look at the 80's...Holding, Croft,Garner,Marshall,Bishop,Ambrose,Walsh(I still have my doubts about Walsh as being a true master of fast bowling, I personally think all I have mentioned here before Walsh were actually better bowlers than Walsh..but thats just my opinion), Hadlee,Lillee,Imran,Wasim were all good enough to be considered great bowlers..and then you even have bowlers like Geoff lawson,Dilley (on his day very good and fast),Alderman and others I cant think of ( ) who were very good bowlers, certainly better than Nash anyway

    Go back to the 70's...the list is as long then as well.

    So...really do you think that the fast bowlers of the 90's were, in depth, that good..admittedly the top ones were very very good (For me those are,Ambrose,McGrath,Wasim,Donald and Pollock..3 of those actually established themselves in first class cricket in the 80's)

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Pali Hill-Bombay
    Posts
    2,535
    Didn't we have a Special Waqar thread when he retired, it was pretty good

  7. #7
    First Class Debutant Bouncer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Area 51 (Been requesting videos that even robelinda cant come up with - up yours all CW )
    Posts
    863
    Certainly the best in 1990's, people who dont agree just give me any other bolwer who turned as many gameas around as he did in 1990's.? Ambrose, Donald even Wasim didnt win same # of games as Waqar.....

    What saperated him from rest, his eager ness to perform and get other person out #3, # 9 it didnt matter, he would just knock'em over....he had probably the most mental strength as fast bolwer in 90's he was winning games and winning games consistenly, this is the key word(which was not the case with wasim donald and ambrose) from the end of his first season at international season.....

    akrem started his career in 1984 but effectively 1989 was the season from when he consistenly started winning games.
    Ambrose started in 1988, but till 1991-92 he did not started wining game consistenly..........
    DOnald in 1992 took ten wickets against India but his next ten wicket haul came in late 1995 against ZIm......so i have no doubt that in 1990's Waqar was the Champion fast bowler, The best of'em all.
    Last edited by Bouncer; 01-10-2004 at 04:29 PM.
    Twitter @3Bouncers
    One of my friends said "And itís not like we havenít defeated India enough. I think weíve beaten them on a couple of occasions, on a lot of occasions, in fact."

  8. #8
    State Vice-Captain aussie_beater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,068
    Quote Originally Posted by Bouncer
    so i have no doubt that in 1990's Waqar was the Champion fats bowler, The best of'em all.
    I wouldn't go that far. I think Ambrose was the most consitent performer if you take the whole decade of 90s, with McGrath in the same league, although he came into the picture only at the middle of the decade. Akram, Waqar and Donald are the next in line who were equally dangerous as the above two but were not as consistent as them for the whole decade. Walsh comes after that who just kept chipping in with Ambrose invoking the most fear in that attack.

    The real Waqar Younis didn't last too long to claim the spot of the greatest bowler of the decade. But for the period between 1990-1994, he was probably the most feared bowler in the world.
    Flames are welcome, but beware of the *Backdraft *

  9. #9
    International Debutant Waughney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Outback Aus. Answer's yes, the middle of nowhere
    Posts
    2,699
    Waqar was absolutely amazing towards the beginning of his career, if he could've maintained that form right throughout it, imagine how good his career stats would be.
    Member of MSC - Murali Supporters Club

    I'm not too dissimilar a batsman to Bradman.
    Both of us have batting averages below 100.

  10. #10
    State Vice-Captain aussie_beater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,068
    If Waqar maintained his form of 1990-1994 for a better part of his career and wasn't plagued by injuries that forced him to cut his pace, I think it won't be an exaggeration to say that he would have turned out to be the greatest fast bowler of all time.

  11. #11
    SJS
    SJS is offline
    Hall of Fame Member SJS's Avatar
    Virus 2 Champion!
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Mumbai India
    Posts
    19,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Hit4Six
    when you all think about the best bowlers of the 90s where would you rate Waqar? and in all time fast bowelrs where would you rate him?
    He is one of the great bowlers the game has seen.

    If there is one thing that seems to make him look a bit 'less' than others it is what appears to be a 'sameness' to his bowling. He appears to be lacking in variation. But thats really misleading. His line was so good that it gave that impression.

    Secondly he seems to lack the volatility and the outward aggression in persona which is the hallmark of pace bowlers.

    He had everytrhing, speed, accuracy, movement in the air and off the wicket and was very penetrative. If there is any modern bowler who is under rated it is Waqar.

  12. #12
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    England
    Posts
    57,734
    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    Those I have highlighted will not in 50 years time be looked back on as great bowlers on the international scene.
    Why 50 years, within 5 years of retirement they'll be forgotten.
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

    Anyone want to join the Society?

    Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

  13. #13
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    An Aussie with a Lancashire accent living in Keighley,West Yorks
    Posts
    7,360
    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Why 50 years, within 5 years of retirement they'll be forgotten.

    i wouldnt want to be so harsh on them

  14. #14
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    26,857
    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Why 50 years, within 5 years of retirement they'll be forgotten.
    Some of them already are amongst casual fans.
    MSN Messenger: minardineil2000 at hotmail dot com | AAAS Chairman
    CricketWeb Black | CricketWeb XI Captain
    ClarkeWatch: We're Watching Rikki - Are You?

    Up The Grecians - Exeter City FC

    Completing the Square: My Cricket Web Blog

  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    Streak wasnt a devestating bowler before 99 he was a decent fast bowler...he had his injury in about 1996 I think(that was the real turning point in his career), before which he was genuinely fast and did tak wickets at a fair rate of knots....but this period only lasted for a fairly brief spell..certainly not long enough to be called an all time great fast bowler.
    Maybe he had an injury in 1996 (don't know about that) but believe me, he certainly had a very nasty injury in 1999, that forced him to cut his pace. In WC99 there was a game where Henry Olonga was clocking 89mph and Streak was being made to look pedestrian (80 tops). A South African commentator (might have been Dave Richardson) was saying that last year Streak could have done that. I never actually saw him bowl before WC99, so I just had to take his word.
    I'm sorry but if you list Fleming,Nash,Allott and Vaas in the top dozen or so bowlers of that decade, I think maybe the 90's wasnt that strong in the fast bowling department.

    have a look at the 80's...Holding, Croft,Garner,Marshall,Bishop,Ambrose,Walsh(I still have my doubts about Walsh as being a true master of fast bowling, I personally think all I have mentioned here before Walsh were actually better bowlers than Walsh..but thats just my opinion), Hadlee,Lillee,Imran,Wasim were all good enough to be considered great bowlers..and then you even have bowlers like Geoff lawson,Dilley (on his day very good and fast),Alderman and others I cant think of ( ) who were very good bowlers, certainly better than Nash anyway

    Go back to the 70's...the list is as long then as well.

    So...really do you think that the fast bowlers of the 90's were, in depth, that good..admittedly the top ones were very very good (For me those are,Ambrose,McGrath,Wasim,Donald and Pollock..3 of those actually established themselves in first class cricket in the 80's)
    Quite clearly you've never seen Dion Nash bowl before all his injuries. His career followed a similar pattern to Angus Fraser, and IMO they could both have been bowlers who took 300 Test-wickets at 24-5 if they'd had the injury record of, say, a Walsh.
    Who, incidentally, I agree with you about not being perhaps quite as good as some seem to think - he was truly brilliant only in perhaps the last 2-3 years of his Test-career. Nonetheless, a Test-match bowling average of 24 is not to be sniffed at. If he wasn't as good as Marshall, Ambrose and Holding, that's hardly much of a slight.
    Personally I think the 70s, 80s and 90s were all exceptional decades for seam-bowling - but the presence in the 90s of Murali, Mushtaq Ahmed and Warne (plus Saqlain and Harbhajan towards the end) means the '90s shades it.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 32
    Last Post: 11-04-2004, 04:18 AM
  2. The Beach Cricket World Cup 2003 (story)
    By Samuel_Vimes in forum General
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 30-11-2003, 02:24 PM
  3. Fastest To Multiples Of 100 Wickets
    By Bazza in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-08-2003, 05:48 AM
  4. Waqar sacked
    By marc71178 in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 23-03-2003, 03:37 PM
  5. Waqar Younis up on 400 !...Tribute thread
    By Gotchya in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 29-11-2002, 04:14 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •