Gough for the sack

[Scaly piscine]

I don't see the point in persisting with Gough for his experience, all you're doing by playing him is depriving someone else of the experience they'd get by playing instead of Gough. Lack of experience didn't hurt most of the WI ODI players did it? (and count *for* Pakistan/India)

As for those who for some reason think Gough hasn't been somewhat toothless of late his figures for the year are:

18 wickets @ 35.5 each (some of these will be 49th over jobs obviously)
Economy Rate 4.61

 

[luckyeddie]

So long, Dazzler - don't let the door hit you on the way out.

He has been a star, but he's very much on the wane. Let him have Zimbabwe for a bit of fun, but the international career is nearly over.

 

[Richard]

That's extremely harsh. IMO Wharf bowled really well and the English bowlers didn't lose that game. Rather the West Indies lower order won it with the possible help of some poor bowler management at the end by Vaughan.

Well he certainly got good enough figures to justify him playing some more ODIs.
But I think the shorter his ODI-career, the better for everyone.
I'll be surprised if he doesn't get massacred in South Africa, however poor they've been recently.

And that determines whether a player plays international cricket again? Before Butcher in Tests... Harmison in ODIs... players can improve...

Kirtley has got 3 chances in ODIs, and has badly messed-up every time.
Butcher always had everyone thinking he'd got potential, and he actually had an excellent spell in 1998 which most people seem to forget about. They think he failed non-stop, when in fact he only failed from The Second Ashes Test 1998\99 to the time when he was dropped.
Nonetheless, everyone was surprised and delighted when he got his recall and did so well.

 

[Richard]

What did he do wrong in the first place?

Captained the team who lost to West Indies and New Zealand and tied with Sri Lanka to get knocked-out of their own World Cup.
Not much when you think about it, but in the heat of the moment, one hell of a lot.

 

[Richard]

So long, Dazzler - don't let the door hit you on the way out.

He has been a star, but he's very much on the wane. Let him have Zimbabwe for a bit of fun, but the international career is nearly over.

And if he goes for 3.84-an-over in South Africa and comes-out with an average of 26.31?

 

[Mr Casson]

Wharf has done crap. He had a good debut but that was mainly due to India trying to hit him out the park when he bowled short..the moment teams realise he just bangs the ball in over after over he's pretty easy to handle. Id rather we Dropped Wharf than Gough, granted he had a bad final but he's been magnificent for us bar that.

Wharf and Anderson are extremely different bowlers.

For example, Anderson is good, Wharf is atrocious

Nah, what I like about Anderson is that if he can get better control he can be extremely good. He gets some good swing and he pitches the ball up; it should take more wickets than Wharf's hit-the-deck rubbish.

If most of Wharf's wickets so far have been from short bowling, it's only a matter of time before batsmen realize they don't need to play at him. He'll either become impotent or start being very expensive.

 

[Richard]

My bet's on both.
The key thing with Anderson is the "if" part.

 

[tooextracool]

Gough has been magnificent for us bar that?!? Like when? Gough has been steady most of the time, but for someone who's useless at batting and probably the slowest fielder (put him in the deep and watch those 1s turn into 2s) he should be a lot more useful as a bowler to make up for these deficiencies. The last 2 matches he's been a liability and it's clear even in helpful conditions he just can't bowl good batsmen out. Anderson has been pretty good in ODIs, he was only really dropped from them because of some poor Test bowling and he's also a far better fielder than gough. I don't really see an argument for keeping Gough in the side any more.

i might see a case for dropping gough, given that he doesnt have any sort of future in the english side, but for anderson who has had god knows how many failures in ODIs in the last year or so??
i seriously dont know what he does in domestic limited overs cricket, but until he sorts out that accuracy there is absolutely no way he should be considered to be part of any side IMO.....

 

[tooextracool]

18 wickets @ 35.5 each (some of these will be 49th over jobs obviously)
Economy Rate 4.61

might wanna consider that the economy is relatively high due to the 'bowling in the death' bit too....
nonetheless i dont disagree with you about the fact that gough should be dropped, but its because i think those figures arent brilliant considering that he cant bat or field all that well either.

 

[tooextracool]

What did he do wrong in the first place?

what did he do right though? never thought he was a 'tough' captain who could get the most out of his players and i believe that is what is required in this situation....of course the d/l error is not something to ride home about.

 

[Craig]

Make Zulu captain!!!!!!

Never going to happen.

I have read a few books on the South African cricket team (about a certain Wessels 'Hansie' Cronje), and I got the firm impression that Klusenser isn't a team player, and very much an individual, then a team guy.

 

[Craig]

What did he do wrong in the first place?

1-5 v Australia in 01/02, WC2003?

 

[luckyeddie]

And if he goes for 3.84-an-over in South Africa and comes-out with an average of 26.31?

You actually think he'll GET to South Africa?

As far as one-dayers are concerned, yesterday draws a line under things. The next big one is WC2007 - with the small matter of the Aussies next year.

Those are mighty fine stats - I dare say they relate so something Harmison did in the past, but I'm not going to spend an hour searching. Let me know when Gough gets his

a) pace
b) accuracy
c) youthful health

back again.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Captained the team who lost to West Indies and New Zealand and tied with Sri Lanka to get knocked-out of their own World Cup.
Not much when you think about it, but in the heat of the moment, one hell of a lot.

The team was outplayed by the West Indies, not Pollock. The team was outplayed by New Zealand, not Pollock. The weather intervened against Sri Lanka and not all cricketers are required to know Math.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

1-5 v Australia in 01/02, WC2003?

Australia has done as bad if not worse to better captains and South Africa only just got knocked out of the World Cup largely due to the bat of Stephen Fleming and everyone should know that that's hardly stoppable when it gets flowing.

 

[honestbharani]

The point is in the last 10 years or so, Fleming's bat has got flowing only 4 or 5 times and one of those happened against SA led by Pollock. No, I am not saying he is a bad captain, but I thought he could have done better in that particular match. If I remember right, 12 out of 17 boundaries of Flem came off half volleys or short ones on the leg stump and it is the world's worst kept secret that the guy loves playing on the onside.


On the topic, I think Goughie should be given a go against Zim just to see if he still has it in him and if not, yes, he could be politely asked to step aside for Mr. Anderson.

 

[marc71178]

alex wharf has done well and he should now stay in the side until there is reason to replace him.

0 wickets all competition isn't enough reason?

 

[marc71178]

James Anderson has been poor in recent ODIs and Alex Wharf's selection has by and large been shown-up as the howler it is. 7 overs for 45 against the might of Zimbabwe, for Christ's sake. Now he plays a big part in losing the final.

Based on one poor over you're blaming him?

 

[marc71178]

Is there any pleasing any England fans?

Bring back Ramprakash.

 

[Langeveldt]

What did he do wrong in the first place?

He was the scapegoat for SA's 2003 WC exit