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7 Players who dont get the credit that they should get...

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
The title says all. Please keep the discussion on topic plz.
In no particular order...

Lance Klusener :
He burst into a cricket in 97 as a tearaway who could strike the ball hard. But his peak was from 98 to 2000 when he couldnt do a thing wrong. His performances in the 99 world cup are unforgettable. While bevan might have won more matches for aussie than lance he will never match kluseners awesome presence. ( sort of a lara vs tendulkar comparison here with lance being lara)
With one of the highest strike rates and a cool head klusener is no slogger. At his peak i dont think any other player was more intimidating than him

But for some wierd reason he has run out of form and confidence while the media and fans seem to think abt him as a fluky player who just got lucky for a while.

Biggest Achievement: The spine of SA during thier peak with the bat and a very useful support bowler


Dean Jones :
One of the Pioneers of complete oneday cricket. Politics and his own mouth may have forced him out of international cricket which is another reason why he never got much credit for his performance.
But make no mistake abt his performance. He should find a place in any of the top 10 batsmen in ODI's. Complete allround cricketer and excellent runner. No slouch in test cricket too. And a amazing stamina too boot.

May be until two yrs ago he still could have made the aussie team which tells a lot abt his talents

Biggest Achievement : Boasts one of the highest ODI averages, and his sheer aggression both while batting and running between the wickets was a treat to watch. One of australia's most talented and least appreciated cricketers.

Krish Srikkanth :
This man was the reason i got into cricket. The original buccaneer. Before all the afridis and jayasuriyas he was the trendsetter. A quality cricketer he had all the shots in the book and a sound technique. But lacked temperament to build a innings. Along with gavaskar formed one of india's few opening partnerships that lasted a while. A thinking captain too.But politics and regional preferences nipped his captaincy in the bud.

Biggest Achievement : Sheer aggression. First indian to score 4000 ODI runs. On his day could tear any attack apart as he showed many times. Was dismissed 5 times in the 90's. with some selfishness and discipline he could have been recognized as a all time great ODI opening batsman.

Javed Miandad :
If there was a cricketer who could be called street fighter it was this man. You just dont get into a cat fight with him and win as dennis lillee found out. A very talented cricketer. With one stroke destroyed india's spirit for years to come. Original pioneer of percentage one day batting with the nudges, steers, dabs and quick running.

Biggest Achievement : His test avg never went below 50!!!. In his heyday easily one of the world's top 3 batsment both in one day and tests. A good thinking captain too boot. Throw in his fighter mentality ...it is easy to understand why his competitors respected him so much.

Arjuna Ranatunga :
He was what Gavaskar was to india. Fearless, willing to use every tactic in the book and a few more, clever,cunning and willing to stand up and fight. In a country where batsmen oozed with talent and were flashy he was the pauper. But he played within his limitations. Despite his size was one of the best judges of a single. Western media might have portrayed him as a villain but he can take a significant applause for Sri lankas progress.

Biggest Achievement : Putting sri lanka on the cricket map. Showing a couple of moronic umpires what happens when u meet a assertive and pro active captain. Saving the career of one of the greatest spinners and a world cup to boot!!

Andy Flower :
His run with the bat against india and SA does not have many parallels. Sure he didnt play that much against all teams. But whenever they played andy showed he is special. But when a man stays behind the wicket for 2 days and then in front of the wicket for 3days and repeats the feat you have to doff ur hat to him. If he had been playing in a diff team he would have been hailed the next bradman.

Biggest achievement: Check out his stats. In this case they tell the story.

Nathan Astle :
Yeah he can bat as well as any one in the world. He is a decent change bowler who can actually be termed a allrounder in ODI's.Yet he is not the most famous player. Plays for one of the weakest teams. Recently against ENG he showed what he could do when on song. At times nz's only performing batsman.

Biggest Achievement : Putting the Gilly hype is perspective. For the last 6 yrs has been New zee's Batting order. Take him out and u find a batting order that rivals zimb and a big match player to boot.


Cheers

[Edited on 7/24/02 by Neil Pickup]
 

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
Changed. My Pleasure 8D

Klusener - Agreed
Jones - Mostly before my time. Only remember the last couple of years. But he was good...
Srikkanth - Who?!
Miandad - Before my time. Again.
Ranatunga - Doesn't get credit because he ain't a nice guy
A.Flower - Agreed
Astle - I think you may be overrating him here a little.
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
Changed. My Pleasure 8D

Klusener - Agreed
Jones - Mostly before my time. Only remember the last couple of years. But he was good...
Srikkanth - Who?!
Miandad - Before my time. Again.
Ranatunga - Doesn't get credit because he ain't a nice guy
A.Flower - Agreed
Astle - I think you may be overrating him here a little.
Why is ranatunga not a nice guy ? coz he wouldnt roll over and let every oneuse him as a door mat ?
He was as nice as waugh,warne and hussain.

Srikanth - 82-92- swashbuckling to say the least. Imran once said that it does not matter what you bowl to srikkanth..it just depends on his mood. He could wack a good length ball to the fence or pop up a catch of a half volley..

Why do u think astle is overrated ? i think he is grossly underrated, considering he seems to perform when they need him..
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Klusener - I don't know that anyone underrated him when he was at his peak. He was rightly described as an incredible all rounder mainly in one dayers where he could decide matches single handedly on his batting
skills and/or bowling. Unfortunately, lately, he hasn't been half the bowler he was. He still retains his explosiveness as a batsman though and could set the world cup alight.

Dean Jones - again primarily shot into prominence in one dayers and at one time in the 80s was regarded as the best one dayer in the world for his hustling and big hitting skills in batting and his electrifying fielding. He has played some memorable test innings (the double hundred in India in the tie test series), but could not translate his one day performance completely into tests. I don't think he was underestimated or underrated during his prime.

Srikkanth is a largely underrated player, true. He had the striking capacity to make the best of opposition bowlers shiver in their boots. It was his so called indifference to building an innings or indiscreet stroke play or supposed lack of defensive technique that made people underrate him. I consider him as India's best opener after Gavaskar. I would rate him above Shastri and Sidhu.

Miandad's street fighter attitude was always criticised, but I don't think too many people underestimated him as a batsman. He is considered in knowledgable cricketing circles as Pakistan's best ever and one of cricket's all-time greats.

Ranatunga is considered as Sri Lanka's best captain ever and one of its most intelligent batsmen. As a fielder, he suffered in comparison to some of his fleet footed compatriots especially towards the end of his career, but otherwise except for some Aussies, I think the entire cricketing world respects him.

Andy Flower - well, he is regarded as one of the premier batsmen in world cricket today who is seen as single handedly shouldering the burden of playing for one of the weakest teams.

Astle is definitely underrated even after that stupendous double hundred against England. He has been a sure fire match winner for NZ in both forms of cricket against all comers and should be recognised by now as one of the top batsmen in the modern cricketing world.

To conclude, I agree with you on Srikkanth and Astle, but I don't think the others were really underrated.
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
I did not meann that they were underrated or did not get credit when they were at thier peak.

I meant now when some cricketers win award after award or get hyped to the skies these players who were trendsetters or great contributors in their time never get the respect or fame which i feel they deserve...
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
I wouldn't put Miandad in that category because anybody who knows their cricket, knows what or who he was....to my mind he is one of the all time great batsman whose ability to improvise was unparalleled.He possessed one of the best cricketing brains as well.

It always happens this way as kids come around who have only seen the current players and haven't really seen the earlier ones.
 

Top_Cat

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Klusener: My opinion of him goes something like this: ZULU! ZULU! ZULU! ZULU! ZULU! ZULU!

Errrhmmmmm...........anyway, when he first entered world cricket, he was a VERY quick bowler, clocked at 154+km/h at one stage. I wasn't sure until i first saw him bowl and sure enough, most balls he bowled were above 146km/h so I was convinced. Unfortunately he lost that devastating pace. Shame.

As for his batting, well he was a heck of a hitter but he was very smart too. Fearless and though he could hit anyone out of the ground. And did on occasion.

In short, he's one of my favourite cricketers of the past 10 years. Total aggression all the way and I really admire that. Plus you've gotta love a guy whiter than me who spoke 3 Zulu languages before learning English!

Dean Jones: Another of my favourites. Was a better Test player than he got credit for (average of 44!) but only due to his one-day performances. Was personally responsible for reviving the art of the quick-single which guys like Javed Miandad copied when he could no longer be bothered merely belting good bowlers everywhere and needed a challenge! :D Seriously, Deano himself said he borrowed his single-taking technique from Javed but he turned it into an artform. Was dropped WELL before he should have been, regardless of his big mouth.

Srikkanth: Fair call. He certainly was one of the better sloggers around at the time (probably the only one, really). I loved how you could ALWAYS tell when he was about to belt one by his grip on his bat (anyone remember that? I'll explain if no-one gets it! :D). I liked him but as he got older and slower, his natural talent couldn't make up for his sub-standard technique. Still an awesome player, though.

Javed Miandad: Despite the fact he could never be given out LBW in Pakistan ;), he was still an incredible player. Could slog anyone after taking the most deft singles throughout his innings. I swear I saw him score a hundred at less than a run-a-ball, yet he only hit 3 boundaries...........that's a LOT of running.

Arjuna: Actually he was quite a talented stroke-maker back a few years. He's just too annoying to be given too much credit. :D I give him credit for not only making SL competitive but world-beaters.

Andy Flower: Obviously a VERY talented player and always has been. I must confess I haven't seen much of him and he's never done exceptionally well against Australia but he always looked the goods.

Nathan Astle: Personally, I've been waiting for him to really show the world what he can do and on his first tour of Australia, he rarely came close but in the last couple of years, he seems to have finally bridged the 'potential-performance' gap. plays shots to all parts and I believe we're only just seeing the start of a pretty golden run for him.
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
well one more time....The players i have written abt are those who dont get mentioned so often like others do..

for example : when it comes to pakistan it is alwys imran while javed is mostly forgotten. or when openers are disscussed every tom dick and harry are mentioned but not srikanth...

Is it clear why i did this topic folks ? :D

T_C : i can guarentee you (u can have my left nut if i am wrong..heh) that Zulu was fast but not 150mph fast. I remember him clocking 145s but that was it. He started of thinking he could blast out batsmen but lacked that little extra and become azhars lady dog (have to work hard here..lol) for a while.
I have to agree with u that he was not a slogger.

Srikanth had a pretty good techinque...a wee bit loose but his reflexes made up for it. During his hey day he has thrashed so many good bowlers and got grudging respect from many.
His biggest achievement was that whenever he clicked he seemed to bring india to victory or atleast close. Pity that he had no discipline and tended to throw away things.
And politics played a major role and cut his career short at his peak.
 

Top_Cat

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T_C : i can guarentee you (u can have my left nut if i am wrong..heh)
Errr, pass...............

that Zulu was fast but not 150mph fast. I remember him clocking 145s but that was it. He started of thinking he could blast out batsmen but lacked that little extra and become azhars lady dog (have to work hard here..lol) for a while.
I have to agree with u that he was not a slogger.
I thought Azhar only belted him in his first Test?

Anyway, I'm only going on what I read in a book by Mark Waugh. The speed was hardly official, but what one is I guess?
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer


I thought Azhar only belted him in his first Test?

Anyway, I'm only going on what I read in a book by Mark Waugh. The speed was hardly official, but what one is I guess?
Azhar belted him in his debut test at kolkata. Then the whole team ate him up at kanpur. Then in the second test in SA(durban i guess) where sachin and azhar thrashed SA around klusener got whacked for 5 fours in a over. Azhar literally had him.
But then klusener decided that he cant blast international batsmen out with his pace and started engaging his brain to become the class allrouder he was at his peak.
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
Ranatunga is a brat. No wonder he gets no credit.
huh ?
what did he do ? steal ur lunch or bully you when u were a kid?

Can you explain how u arrived at that brilliant opinion?
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
wtf?

you're saying NZ has a batting lineup that rivals Zimbabwe after Astle is taken out?

what about Richardson, Cairns & McMillan?
Fleming is capable of being a better batsman.
 

Paid The Umpire

All Time Legend
Can you remember the incident in Australia were he called his team of the pitch. Remember? Huh?

That excuse the pun "That just aint cricket."

He brought the game into dis-repute, so in my books he deserves no credit.

And he did steal my lunch! :cry:
 

The Argonaut

State Vice-Captain
I can understand your thinking about these guys and you're right for some of them. I must agree with some of the other posters that Miandad does get the credit that he deserves. His record is outstanding and anyone who grew up watching cricket in his era would rate him highly.

Dean Jones is probably another one that is still remembered fondly. I was at the Gabba when he smashed 145 in a one day game. He got to 100 at a run a ball and then proceeded to smash the bowlers all over the place getting the next 45 in about 15 balls. If he could have controlled his mouth then he would have played much more test cricket.

I didn't see enough of Srikkanth to make a judgement on him.

I agree with you on Klusener (though he has lost his way recently), Flower and Astle.

With respect to Ranatunga, he will never be rated as a great batsman and rightly so but he deserves more credit for lifting Sri Lanka from easybeats to one of the great sides in world cricket. His captaincy was particularly underrated. Whether he was right or wrong when he took that action in Australia is debatable. Some will say that he was standing up for his player but others will say that he disgraced the game with the way that he did it. Popular opinion is polarised about him on that.
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
Tim: May be i was a little too harsh regarding nz.But take out astle they are just a little bit better than zimb in batting. Fleming is very talented but doesnt convert 50's to 100's. Macca is good is possible thier second best batsmen. Cairns has pulled them out of the woods quite a few times.

But astle is the only one who has managed to put nz in a position to WIN and he has alwys managed to perform on big occasions.

And i hope all this bull**** abt ranatunga being annoying would stop.

Murali was his biggest and sole weapon. Some dumb poms and bigoted aussies whined abt his action. THE ICC HAS CLEARED HIM TWICE for crying out loud.
what do u expect him to do ? bend over ?
Yeah he stood up and won the battle which still rankles the whiners.
He has got into warne's skin so much that he still whines tht he is a disgrace like he is mother terasa's reincarnation :rolleyes:

Yeah ranatunga is not the most sporting and could play dirty but not much different from waugh,warne or pollock right ?
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
Dean Jones is one of my favourite Aussie batsman....I simply cannot forget his 210 at Madras in 1986.That was an awesome innings in an awesome test match whch ended in that famous tie.And I completely agree that he gets much less credit then he actually deserves.

Srikanth is another one for sure.He invented pinch hitting or slogging or whatver you want to call it.His reflexes took a beating after Akram hit him in the eye with a lifter at Jamshedpur in 1987 and his batting after that was never quite the same again as his eyes were his main weapon.And yes TC, he used to have a lot of mannerisms when batting and you could sure detect a roll of the left wrist I guess, just before the bowler sent out a delivery and you would know he would have a swipe.

As for Ranatunga not being liked, I guess its an Aussie point of view.He paid back the Aussies in the same coin and that's why he is not liked by the Aussies.Same goes for Ganguly I guess.But who gives a damn if the Aussies like him or not....he put Sri Lankan cricket right up there and he should get his due respect.
 

Top_Cat

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And yes TC, he used to have a lot of mannerisms when batting and you could sure detect a roll of the left wrist I guess, just before the bowler sent out a delivery and you would know he would have a swipe.
I got the feeling that he was going to belt one when he gripped his bat right at the end of the handle to get more leverage to get underneath the ball. That was pointed out by commentators too. Sure enough, BOOM! I loved Kris Srikkanth! :D

As for Ranatunga not being liked, I guess its an Aussie point of view.He paid back the Aussies in the same coin and that's why he is not liked by the Aussies.Same goes for Ganguly I guess.But who gives a damn if the Aussies like him or not....he put Sri Lankan cricket right up there and he should get his due respect.
Just to give the criticisms of Arjuna Ranatunga some context, I've read quite a few articles and books about him by various players and the main complaint isn't that he sledged them (quite far from it; they appreciate the fight, if the books are to be believed) but that he would portray the SL's and others as the totally innocent parties in the affair and the Aussies as big, bad sledgers, when in reality he was just as bad as any of the Aussies (as are most competitive teams). But they respect him for both his batting (as I said, he was actually quite a good batsman in his day) and his attitude.

The Aussie players are quite happy to give and take sledging from an opponent but when the players who do it against them deny, deny and deny some more that they/they're side does it and blames them entirely, you can see why they get a little annoyed.

Believe me, among the players (not the press; please try to ignore our stupid press), Arjuna is respected as an opponent.

Mind you, a special place for Aussie hatred is reserved for guys like Roshan Mahanama and Brian Lara. I'm sure in English press too. Why? Roshan cried foul about Aussie 'lack of sportsmanship', slegding etc,. in his book yet conveniently forgot to mention his hip-and-shoulder against Darren Gough in Adelaide in a one-dayer, A VERY unsporting action. Plus, Roshan is as competitive as they come in terms of sledging yet whines about the Aussies. As I said, the Aussies don't deny sledging at all but when an opponent who clearly DOES sledge as much denies it, frustration mounts but that incident in Adelaide tore it for most of them.

Then there's Mr. Lara. He was a VERY well-respected opponent and there was a LOT of sympathy for him in the Aussie team after he was 'stumped' by Ian Healy in 1992 and obviously they respected his qualities as a player. That was until the WI's next tour of Australia where he abused Ian Healy for what he percieved as a non-catch which clearly was a catch, as judged by replay. He stormed into the Aussie dressing room and abused the Aussie management because of this (BEFORE seeing the replay......) and this damaged relations between him and the Aussie team, which had been VERY good up until then.

The thing which really killed that relationship was his whining about sledging in the Perth Test of that year. He complained that the Aussies were too harsh on Robert Samuels and himself (whilst he got a hundred......guess it didn't affect him too much.) publically, regardless of the fact the Aussies had kept quiet about his own sledging because they figured they give it, so if someone gives it back all the good.

Anyway, I think you'll find that Aussie players DO respect players who play as hard as them but when they try to portray themselves as the innocent party, it's annoying.

An example of this; Javed Miandad. They always described him as annoying (almost as annoying as them) but because he was quite frank about it, he was much more respected as an opponent than most others, aside from his prodigous talent as a player.
 

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