• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

*Official* New Zealand in Bangladesh Thread

southern man

U19 Cricketer
http://www.nzcricket.co.nz/display.aspx?pri=1&cid=1944

Marshall and Franklin for Bangladesh tour

Hamish Marshall and James Franklin are the big winners in the New Zealand team named today for the first tour of Bangladesh next month.

Marshall has ousted Craig McMillan for the tour while Franklin has taken the place of Daryl Tuffey who has been rested in a bid to sort out a bruising problem that is affecting his confidence.

The full team for the tour is: Stephen Fleming (captain), Nathan Astle, Ian Butler, James Franklin, Hamish Marshall, Chris Martin, Brendon McCullum, Kyle Mills, Jacob Oram, Michael Papps, Mark Richardson, Scott Styris, Daniel Vettori, Paul Wiseman.

New Zealand coach John Bracewell said Marshall's selection was a reflection of the strength developing in New Zealand's 20-man squad which the selectors had struggled to cut down to 20 players at the end of the last season.

Marshall had shown form in Asian conditions before, in Pakistan last summer, and in India in the Buchi Babu tournament in 2000-01. His selection, ahead of McMillan, allowed the selectors to investigate changes for the future in the middle-order. He will bat at No 5 or 6 in the order.

"In a squad sometimes guys move ahead and others stand still. We are also looking at horses for courses," Bracewell said.

The loss of Chris Cairns to the Test team also meant that different options had to be considered by the selectors for the middle-order.

Bracewell explained that Tuffey's concerns are in no way associated with the knee injury that caused him problems at the end of last summer and, in fact, Tuffey had received no treatment at all for the knee. The problem was associated with bruising that occurred whenever he dived for the ball or hit the ground hard. Blows to his legs cause them to swell up and this was affecting his confidence and his performances, he said.

"There is no real worry about his ability to bowl, but he is worried about putting his leg down and we need to get it sorted because he is too valuable to us," Bracewell said.

Chris Martin, who is in South Africa with New Zealand's A team, was never out of line for selection, Bracewell said. He was impressed with the way he fought through the England tour, especially when without the support of Tuffey and Kyle Mills who suffered injuries.

"He will be a handy asset throughout the summer and with him and Ian Butler we have some heat in the attack," he said.

New Zealand's first match on the tour, a three-day game in Dhaka, begins on October 14, and the first Test at October 19, also at Dhaka and the second Test on October 26 at Chittagong. A separate team for three one-dayers will be named later.
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
Interesting, when I initially read this I thought Marshall would be batting at 3, however on the NZHerald website there is a quote from Bracewell: "He will bat in the middle order where he is a different sort of player than the likes of (Scott) Styris and (Nathan) Astle."

So who is going to bat at 3? The top order has always been a concern, and with Fleming opening, we still have our same old top order issues. I don't think Papps is quite good enough (yet?) to be opening the innings against quality opposition.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Well well, it looks like Bracewell finally feels entrenched enough to take the axe to popular figures in the dressing room, a bit like he apparently did at Gloucester.

I guess the bowling options were limited, but it seems Kyle Mills remains Bracewell's golden boy.
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
MacMillan usually scores well against lower quality opposition, is this a move for the future? Its a pity he is still in the ODI team, if anything he should be dropped from that squad. Its a good move that Astle and McMillan won't be one after the other in the order, I always thought that caused problems against quality teams.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Macka - you'd think Papps will open by the looks of that squad, although those experiments with McCullum at #3 in England may be a hint of things to come here.

A possible side in Bang conditions:

Richardson
Fleming
McCullum
Styris
Marshall
Astle
Oram
Vettori
Wiseman
Butler
Martin
 

Will Scarlet

U19 Debutant
Selective incompetence!

It still baffles me how Butler is even considered for the BCs, let alone selected for a touring squad. His form in England recently has been rubbish. Please give someone else a chance!!!

And how were Sinclair and Fulton both left out?! Playing Bangladesh is the ideal opportunity to bring the form players of the last 12 months - from outside the ENG series squad - into a struggling test team.

In exactly the same sense, the squad for the ICC Championship predictably under-performed when Fleming and Astle didn't score all the runs. Bracewell needs to get a pair!
 
Last edited:

anzac

International Debutant
Hell I've been saying that for yonks.................

this squad will do ok in BAN, but IMO they are still a few options short in the top & middle order with AUS in mind...........let alone the bowling dept.........

my pick is that NZL will go with their stanadard formula of only 5 specialist bats - this leaves Papps & Marshall fighting it out.........

IMO Marshall is likely to bat after Astle - but I can't see them putting McCullum up to #3 - he's too valuable down the order to be exposed too early (unless they are counting upon his experience as an opener in domestic cricket - yet that theory would be even stronger in Papps' case)...........

options are that either Papps WILL open with Richardson, or bat at #3, or that Marshall WILL bat at #3, or at #5 with possibly Astle promoted to #3 based upon his ODI experience as both Opener & #3............

Wiseman gets the #2 spin berth by default ahead of an injured B Martin..........

interesting to see that Mills continues in the Test squad ahead of the likes of Mason or Walmsley.............would have loved to have seen Sherlock given a run with the squad............

A BIIG call from Bracewell to drop Macca esp after his recent ODI form..........but not b4 time IMO..........Astle now needs to keep on his toes as he's done nothing of note since his return from injury...........
 

Kent

State 12th Man
It may be my flu talking, but I'm almost convinced Bracewell will bat McCullum at #3. Here's why -

1) If he was willing to do it out of the blue against England, there's not much stopping him doing it against Bangladesh.
2) It would almost justify those bizarre second innings experiments that Bracewell never really gave a reason for.
3) He's quoted as saying Marshall "will bat in the middle-order, where he's a different player than the likes of Styris and Astle." To me that suggests they'll be 4-5-6.
4) Bracewell will play Oram and two spinners. That's 7-8-9.
5) "With [Martin] and Ian Butler we have some heat in the attack." That's 10-11.
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
It's a bit of a worry to me them refusing to pick top order bats. If they are going to bat Marshall in the middle order, why not bat Sinclair there? NZ *needs* to develop top order batsman. I wouldn't of minded Marshall's inclusion is he were to bat at 3, atleast there is some sense if they're trying to develop him as a top order player. Sinclair or possibly Fulton should of been picked.

It's also a bit of a worry Marshall doesn't even have a FC century to his name, however he's done very well in ODI matches so hopefully I'm totally wrong.

As for who will bat at #3, it looks like McCullum probably will, aside from Richardson I think he's technically the 2nd/3rd best batsman in the side. I don't think either Astle or Styris (even though Styris has done well at #3 before) are technically good enough to bat at #3.

Then again batting the keeper at #3 in tests is an awful lot of responsibility and strain. Sri Lanka are doing it at the moment, but not in every game.
 

Will Scarlet

U19 Debutant
I'd like to see Papps open in BAN and have Flemming at number 3. Papps is a much better option in the longer game than Marshall. It's a shame that How didn't perfom better in SA.

And I see that Sinclair scored another hundred against SA 'A' overnight. That kind of shaky form is exactly why he was again excluded!
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
Sinclair, unlike most NZ batsman, can score hundreds. I think he deserves a place in the squad, surely he has to be next in line.
 

anzac

International Debutant
my main concern with McCullum at #3 is his lack of height & exposure to a fresh new ball attack if the wicket is doing something........

while I'd also prefer to see Papps open, I also think his 'front foot press' gets him in trouble v pace on any pitch with pace & bounce off a length.........consequently I think he would struggle in AUS, WIN, RSA, PAK.....

I've been a fan of Sinclair for some time & have said that IMO his form is better than the number of appearances he has had since ENG toured a couple of season back...............along with Fulton he's probably been the most consistant batsmen last season not in the squad...........

Flem has still yet to have that hip Op hasn't he - they could have gone with Papps & Richardson, then Sinclair, Astle, Marshall etc..........should be enough talent/ability to see off BAN - only problem would be who'd Captain - Oram if he could be persuaded, Astle, Vettori?????

bottom line - my favorite catch cry of the moment - horses for courses......IMO very few batsmen in the current lineup are capable of being effective on ANY sort of wicket - Richardson, Fleming............Styris was but more recently has become too aggressive too soon & is in danger of taking the McMillan path...............
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Bracewell has quashed my McCullum theory within 24 hours! This from him in this morning's Dominion Post -

"Let's face it - we look far better when Stephen is at #3."

"Hamish and Astle are probably vying for one position."

"Even though Papps plays a flinch-hook and the South Africans openly said they couldn't wait to see him on their home turf, our plans are to open with him in Australia."

OK, Braces didn't exactly say the last one....

IMO Fleming needed to be our Graeme Smith (97 and 117 against Harmison wasn't exactly a bad start), but admittedly Papps and Rigger seems to be what most other NZ fans want.
 
Last edited:

Mingster

State Regular
anzac said:
my main concern with McCullum at #3 is his lack of height & exposure to a fresh new ball attack if the wicket is doing something........
What are you on mate? I've been gone a while, and you are still on your wacky theories. :D

McCullum too short? Have you seen him line up against Richardson and Papps? All three are around the same height, and have no problems against the new ball. McCullum's versatility gives us plenty of options, I hope he bats in the Top 6 in the ODIs.

while I'd also prefer to see Papps open, I also think his 'front foot press' gets him in trouble v pace on any pitch with pace & bounce off a length.........consequently I think he would struggle in AUS, WIN, RSA, PAK.....
His front front press problem is over documented, his lack of success against South Africa was judged unfairly, because most of the LBW decisions he fell to were called incorrectly by the umpire. This tour would be an ideal chance to develop the Papps/Richardson partnership.

Likely Test XI – 1 Mark Richardson, 2 Michael Papps, 3 Stephen Fleming (c), 4 Scott Styris, 5 Nathan Astle, 6 Hamish Marshall, 7 Brendon McCullum+, 8 Jacob Oram, 9 Daniel Vettori, 10 James Franklin, 11 Ian Butler
 

Mingster

State Regular
Peter Fulton's time will have to wait, he has a big future ahead of him. He might get blooded in the SL tour, if the Marshall-Test player doesn't work out. But Matt Sinclair will have to be the next cab off the rank. Another year of State cricket won't do him any harm, high unlikely they will give him his debut against the Aussies.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Papps' technique problems are over-documented?

I know they're not in the best form, but I still think the South Africans know their trade pretty well. It's not like they rubbished all of our new players - just Papps.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3040880a10133,00.html

Opening stand over for Fleming
22 September 2004
By JONATHAN MILLMOW

The days of captain Stephen Fleming opening the batting for New Zealand in tests appear over.


Coach John Bracewell indicated yesterday that Fleming would bat at No 3 during next month's series against Bangladesh, ending a run of three tests when he has faced the new ball.

"Let's face it, we look far better when Stephen is at No 3," Bracewell said.

Fleming opened in all three tests in England, though the second and third tests were by default when Michael Papps broke a hand.

However, in the first test at Lord's New Zealand took the soft option by leaving the developing Papps in the stand to make way for Craig McMillan and Nathan Astle in the middle order.

Bracewell nailed his colours to the mast when stating only Astle or the recalled Hamish Marshall would play against Bangladesh.

He is looking at using allrounder Jacob Oram at No 6 and playing both spinners Daniel Vettori and Paul Wiseman.

"Hamish and Astle are probably vying for one position," Bracewell said.

That would leave a top six of Papps partnering Mark Richardson, followed by Fleming, Scott Styris, Astle or Marshall then Oram.

Marshall's chance to impress in Bangladesh will come in the three-day warmup match in Dhaka from October 14-16, but realistically he may not get to add to his one test cap till the tour to Australia in November.

"It will be nice to put that test cap back on - if I get the opportunity," Marshall said. "I'm a bit surprised to get in but I'm confident that I can do well. I like playing on the sub-contintent, so that's exciting."

Marshall is undoubtedly sick of explaining why in five first class seasons he has yet to post a hundred, but as ever he always remains courteous.

"I haven't really pushed my case at domestic level but I do know that my one day game is going pretty well.

"My one-day form has enabled me to understand my game pretty well. Over the years I've batted time and not scored that many runs but back then there was the fear of failure but that fear has gone now."

Bracewell's main selection headache in Bangladesh will be the composition of his pace bowling attack.

Presumably Ian Butler will provide the thrust at the top with either Chris Martin or James Franklin to share the new ball with him.

Neither has set the world alight on New Zealand A's tour of South Africa but by virtue of his six wickets in the last test against England at Trent Bridge and his left-arm variety, Franklin may have his nose in front.
 
Last edited:

Kent

State 12th Man
Mingster said:
Likely Test XI – 1 Mark Richardson, 2 Michael Papps, 3 Stephen Fleming (c), 4 Scott Styris, 5 Nathan Astle, 6 Hamish Marshall, 7 Brendon McCullum+, 8 Jacob Oram, 9 Daniel Vettori, 10 James Franklin, 11 Ian Butler
I don't know if that's the XI you want Mingster, but an attack of Butler/Franklin/Oram/Vettori may even struggle with Bangladesh in their conditions.

Bracewell has said he'll play two spinners unless the pitch is a major surprise.
 
Last edited:

anzac

International Debutant
Mingster said:
What are you on mate? I've been gone a while, and you are still on your wacky theories. :D

McCullum too short? Have you seen him line up against Richardson and Papps? All three are around the same height, and have no problems against the new ball. McCullum's versatility gives us plenty of options, I hope he bats in the Top 6 in the ODIs.



His front front press problem is over documented, his lack of success against South Africa was judged unfairly, because most of the LBW decisions he fell to were called incorrectly by the umpire. This tour would be an ideal chance to develop the Papps/Richardson partnership.

Likely Test XI – 1 Mark Richardson, 2 Michael Papps, 3 Stephen Fleming (c), 4 Scott Styris, 5 Nathan Astle, 6 Hamish Marshall, 7 Brendon McCullum+, 8 Jacob Oram, 9 Daniel Vettori, 10 James Franklin, 11 Ian Butler

funny - 2 out of 3 are / were 'keepers (McCullum & Papps - probably the shortest members of the team along with Marshall), and both RSA & ENG had Richardson hopping about like a demented frog v the short ball - didn't he get out twice caught leaving the periscope up - let alone the number of times he got hit on the helmet????????

I have no problems with Papps / McCullum in the top order in domestic type conditions where the ball doesn't come on as quickly or with as much bounce of a good length - but I do have concerns when they face a fresh new ball attack under those circumstances...............

my main point being that few NZL batsmen are effective on most pitch types.............
 

Top