Right arm fast
State Vice-Captain
vettori is by far the best spin bowler in nz (imo) but hes not gr8 by international standards
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*Official* New Zealand in Bangladesh Thread
- Thread starter southern man
- Start date
Whoops! I thought Bracewell was "bringing some variety to the middle-order" so we wouldn't go from 100/1 to 120/4 any more. Perhaps he was just letting McMillan down easy.
Fleming's 'minnows' average is just 33.1 (18 innings). Add that to his conversion record, and it's an indication of how clumsy Fleming is when he relaxes mentally!
Fleming's 'minnows' average is just 33.1 (18 innings). Add that to his conversion record, and it's an indication of how clumsy Fleming is when he relaxes mentally!
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Perhaps the NZC and Wellington should offer this Mohammad Rafique a nice family home overlooking the harbour. His test average is now almost 7 runs less than Vettori's, although at 34 he's probably not the best stand-down candidate!Right arm fast said:
Seeing he's always talking about "support from the other end", I wonder what Vettori would average if he played for Bangladesh.
The thing that disappoints me about him is how poorly he seems to be bowling his only variation - the arm-ball. I asked a friend who watched yesterday and he said he was still half-tracking it.
Please bear in mind that Rafique started bowling when Bangladesh were not in the test scene. As such, I would say that if we could have shaved a good 10 years from his waist line perhaps then he could have been capable of reaching greater heights.
Anyway, as I gloomily predicted Franklin becomes the most succesful Kiwi bowler. Oh yeh and Rafique too huh.
Rafique is bowling too fast. That is his main problem. A clear and present danger.sigh...
Fleming said NZ wanted to show patience for the first three days and then see what happens. But Flem and Astle out to cut shots with the ball keeping low? Is that showing patience? Admittedly, I'm only following on cricinfo (which despite its name hasn't been providing much), but it seems to be just another example of the NZ upper/middle order self-destructing.
It's disappointing that so often they can't seem to put their plans into practice. Especially disappointing that they feel they need to shoot their mouths off before matches. Does anyone remember the "best team to leave NZ's shores" comment before the England tour? Though this is not quite in the same league, I wish they'd learn to shut up and perform on the field. Very frustrating when there's so much talent.
Having said that, well done the Bangladeshi bowlers. They seem to have bowled a tidy line and length with decent turn from the spinners. Is that right?
On a positive note, it's good to see Sinclair back. I'd rather see him opening than at 4, but he's still a risky option in that position against Australia considering their mental domination of him in past series. Deserves a shot though. If Styris doesn't perform I'd be in favour of trying Sinclair at 4 against the Aussies. Same old problem though: he performs well in a series and then fails against the Aussies only to be dropped. I think he should have been playing in England to allow him to settle, but the A team series in SA has certainly shown him to still be one of the classiest players NZ has to choose from.
On another positive note, thank God for McCullum.
It's disappointing that so often they can't seem to put their plans into practice. Especially disappointing that they feel they need to shoot their mouths off before matches. Does anyone remember the "best team to leave NZ's shores" comment before the England tour? Though this is not quite in the same league, I wish they'd learn to shut up and perform on the field. Very frustrating when there's so much talent.
Having said that, well done the Bangladeshi bowlers. They seem to have bowled a tidy line and length with decent turn from the spinners. Is that right?
On a positive note, it's good to see Sinclair back. I'd rather see him opening than at 4, but he's still a risky option in that position against Australia considering their mental domination of him in past series. Deserves a shot though. If Styris doesn't perform I'd be in favour of trying Sinclair at 4 against the Aussies. Same old problem though: he performs well in a series and then fails against the Aussies only to be dropped. I think he should have been playing in England to allow him to settle, but the A team series in SA has certainly shown him to still be one of the classiest players NZ has to choose from.
On another positive note, thank God for McCullum.
To be fair, I'd be interested to see someone use google and find that "leave NZ's shores" comment. I'm not saying you made it up Grubb, because it's not the first time I've heard it quoted.Grubb said:
I think Cairns said it was the most talented squad of players he's ever been involved with, and if Shane Bond was actually fit that was probably a fair comment IMO. Bearing in mind Cairns played through the 90s, I'd also prefer Bond over Willie Watson or Richardson over Blair Pocock!
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I agree. In case there was any confusion, when I said '34' I was referring to how old he was rather than his average. He's now taken 49 test wickets @ 30.7, which for an attack that he largely has to shoulder the burden for is a top effort.bashar said:
People may say Rafique gets to play in subcontinent conditions more often than others, but it's not like there are many true dustbowls these days. Vettori's average in Asia is about 40.
bryce
International Regular
IMO vettori is a better bowler than rafique, rafique can turn it alot and has very good control but lacks the variation vettori possesses, if you watch vettori bowl you will see how much variation he bowls with and the amount of drift and dip he generates not to mention spin, he also varies his length much better than rafique and bowls and good armball coming around the wicket to the right hander and uses it about once and over to keep the batsmen honest, don't read too much into averages, in all of vettori's test matches in sri lanka(which has very similar pitches/conditions to bangladesh, i think anyway) he has 20 wickets at an average of 23.30.
well played matthew sinclair, pity he got out playing across the line(identical to when nicky boje done it this year in his comeback match), all the top order looked like they were playing bangladesh so they might aswell try some things instead of playing their natural game which is what they should have stuck too.
well played matthew sinclair, pity he got out playing across the line(identical to when nicky boje done it this year in his comeback match), all the top order looked like they were playing bangladesh so they might aswell try some things instead of playing their natural game which is what they should have stuck too.
bryce
International Regular
don't remember it been whacked lately, by good i meant it is quite difficult to read and generally he puts it on the spot, but fair call about the LBW's he used to get a few with the armball but those have dried right up.Kent said:
a good armball(SLA coming around the wicket to a RHB) should be pitched outside off and coming in to attack the stumps and the only possible shot the batsman can play is with a straight bat, and he's been doing that in this current test.
_Ed_
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McCullum saved us from some embarassment there...
Hopefully he and Oram can keep the partnership going for a while tomorrow and give us a good lead. Would be nice to see one of them (McCullum looking the more likely of the 2 from today's performance) go on to get to 100.
Hopefully he and Oram can keep the partnership going for a while tomorrow and give us a good lead. Would be nice to see one of them (McCullum looking the more likely of the 2 from today's performance) go on to get to 100.
Thanks Kent. An example of good critical thinking. This is the actual quote: "I've always thought this is one of the strongest teams, if not the strongest, that New Zealand's sent away" (cricinfo). You are right. Different in a rather important way from how I'd remembered it.Kent said:
My real point though was that I don't like players making comments of this nature to the media. It doesn't really fit with my idea of how the game should be played, and it just doesn't seem to work. But that's just my feeling about it, and I'm quite possibly a sour old git who needs to change with the times.
Maybe it's just that I've seen NZ try similar mindgames in the past with a striking lack of success. Whatever it is, I'm much more comfortable with us being the underdogs, as that's when we play at our best.
I also thought it was a pretty good team that went to England, and said words to that effect on this site, but I still didn't like to read that particular comment at the time, and I certainly didn't think it was going to be a comment of any merit until the results were played out. I don't think NZ gets enough respect from other teams around the world, but displays of bravado (or things seen as displays of bravado even if that's not what is actually intended) which are not backed up on the pitch don't help matters much in that regard.
So, to return to my original comment, if Fleming is going to go on record as saying NZ will play in a certain way, and then three of his batsman (himself included) get out to shots which are not really in keeping with that philosophy, you have to wonder why he'd bother saying it - unless it's mindgames, which leads us back to...
Hmmmmmm............so the pitch is playing up re irregular bounce already - could be very dicey if NZL do not post a sizeable lead...............
great to see Franklin not only grabbing the hat-trick, but also a 5 for..........and cheaply enough..............hard to realise that this is only his 4th Test & he already has 18 wickets after today...............
Sinclair too has had a good day - maybe not the quickest under the circumstances, but another half ton and at least he managed to stay in the middle for a while...............even if I do think he is playing out of position.........
great to see Franklin not only grabbing the hat-trick, but also a 5 for..........and cheaply enough..............hard to realise that this is only his 4th Test & he already has 18 wickets after today...............
Sinclair too has had a good day - maybe not the quickest under the circumstances, but another half ton and at least he managed to stay in the middle for a while...............even if I do think he is playing out of position.........
biased indian
International Coach
Why is this thread not a sticky is it because one team is Bangladesh
Mingster
State Regular
Vettori rarely uses his armball to good effect these days. In his prime a few years ago, that was among his best attacking weapons. Now when he does use it, it's short outside off stump and waiting to be cut for the boundary.
Oram and McCullum did a good job. Sinclair batted very well, and played some stunning shots. Shame that Fleming, Styris and Astle missed out.
Oram and McCullum did a good job. Sinclair batted very well, and played some stunning shots. Shame that Fleming, Styris and Astle missed out.