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Genuine legends who still play...

ReallyCrazy

Banned
Mr. P said:
Murali - IMO this bloke will be remembered FAR more for his wrong action then his brilliant record. Warne will go down as a great spinner, and that is all. Why? Well to be honest, because a) hes Australian and b) because he is rated so highly by opponents. Muralis opposition doesn't talk as much about him and if they do, it is usually negative.
Warne sucks, he's not rated highly by all his opponents. Murali has a better record against every opposition team. Warne will get killed in India. In 1998, it was Sidhu and Tendulkar who took him apart. In 2001, it was Laxman and Dravid. And this year, it will be Sehwag, Ganguly, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman and Yuvraj piling up on him and beating him to a pulp.

If Wane goes down as a great spinner just coz he's australian, then thats just wrong.
 

Swervy

International Captain
biased indian said:
other than indians certainly upto now!!!!!

tomorrow i dont know????
i am sure the Indian players arent stupid enough not to respect Warne as a legspin bowler!!!
 

steds

Hall of Fame Member
Whoever captains Bangladesh to their first test win will become a Mike Brearley sort of figure. I expect to see that pretty soon.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
ReallyCrazy said:
Warne sucks, he's not rated highly by all his opponents. Murali has a better record against every opposition team. Warne will get killed in India. In 1998, it was Sidhu and Tendulkar who took him apart. In 2001, it was Laxman and Dravid. And this year, it will be Sehwag, Ganguly, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman and Yuvraj piling up on him and beating him to a pulp.

If Wane goes down as a great spinner just coz he's australian, then thats just wrong.
No, Warne will go down as a great spinner purely and simply because there is only one twirly in history to rival him as far as the sheer number of victims - and that's how it should be.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
luckyeddie said:
No, Warne will go down as a great spinner purely and simply because there is only one twirly in history to rival him as far as the sheer number of victims - and that's how it should be.
But that is because they play so many matches these days compared to when O'Reilly and Laker were at their peak. Whether ''that's how it should be'' is debatable because O'Reilly and Laker would certainly be up there had they played that many matches.
 

Swervy

International Captain
a massive zebra said:
But that is because they play so many matches these days compared to when O'Reilly and Laker were at their peak. Whether ''that's how it should be'' is debatable because O'Reilly and Laker would certainly be up there had they played that many matches.
you may well be right...but both those players are considered legends...so whats the point???
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
a massive zebra said:
But that is because they play so many matches these days compared to when O'Reilly and Laker were at their peak. Whether ''that's how it should be'' is debatable because O'Reilly and Laker would certainly be up there had they played that many matches.
Naturally - but you could say the same about so many players. Take a straw poll and the MAJORITY of CW members, if asked to vote for the greatest bowler of all time, would in all likelihood vote for the same person (Marshall), yet there is no way of saying for certain that he truly was the best, or in the top 10 even.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
I blame ReallyCrazy's craziness for derailing this thread. Reallycrazy you should be ashamed of your comments. Whatever Warnie is but there is no doubt that he is one of the greatest Spinners ever and a legend.

Now take that Pic off of your Avtaar and get the Aishwarya back there, You dont deserve to have 'dada' as your Avtaar.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
ReallyCrazy said:
Murali has a better record against every opposition team. In 1998, it was Sidhu and Tendulkar who took him apart. In 2001, it was Laxman and Dravid.
Yes, Murali has a better record against all countries, except Pakistan.
Also, Warne has failed dismally against the best players of spin – India (29 wickets at 55.44). Murali has done far better against them (51 wickets at 32.94).

Furthermore...

Murali has a better average, strike rate, economy rate, and takes more wickets per match than Warne; despite the fact that Warne has not had to play against the world's best team.

Mat O M R W Ave Best 5wi 10w SR Econ
Murali 90 5120.4 1366 11998 527 22.76 9-51 44 13 58.2 2.34
Warne 112 5248.2 1478 13425 527 25.47 8-71 27 8 59.7 2.55

Murali is far more consistent. Warne has been known to be hit around occasionally and although Murali has previously been nullified to a degree, he has never been smashed around the park.

Warne
45 7 150 1 3.33 3rd Test v Ind in Aus 1991/92 at Sydney
22 2 107 0 4.86 1st Test v SL in SL 1992 at Colombo (SSC)
30 7 122 1 4.07 1st Test v Ind in Ind 1997/98 at Chennai
42 4 147 0 3.50 2nd Test v Ind in Ind 1997/98 at Kolkata
15.5 2 70 1 4.42 3rd Test v WI in WI 1998/99 at Bridgetown
13 1 60 0 4.62 3rd Test v Ind in Aus 1999/00 at Sydney
34 3 152 1 4.47 2nd Test v Ind in Ind 2000/01 at Kolkata
30 6 108 2 3.60 3rd Test v SA in SA 2001/02 at Durban

Warne is part of a stronger bowling attack. If Warne was of equal ability to Murali he would take less wickets per match than Murali (because there are four good bowlers competing for wickets), but would have a lower average and strike rate (because greater pressure is put on the batsman by bowlers at the other end). Murali takes more wickets per match and has a lower average and strike rate.

Warne takes a lot of his wickets against the same batsman, whereas Murali takes more of a variety. A high proportion of Warne's test wickets are numbers 10 and 11 in the batting order; Murali does well against all batting positions. What’s the point in Warne taking the wickets of Nehra or Walsh game after game, if he cannot trouble Tendulkar, Dravid or Lara?

Although Warne has been less effective since his shoulder injury, even at his peak (1993-97) he was not as good as Murali has been this century.

Mat O M R W Ave Best 5wi 10w SR Econ
Murali 2000-2003 37 2347.3 684 4990 258 19.34 9-51 22 10 54.5 2.13
Warne 1993-97 57 2876.5 938 6457 277 23.31 8-71 11 3 62.3 2.24

You could take a look at their respective records in the English county championship:

Mat O M R W Ave Best 5wi 10w SR Econ
Murali 19 1049.1 322 2195 149 14.73 7-39 17 6 42.2 2.09
Warne 24 962.5 259 2682 113 23.73 6-34 8 0 52.7 2.69

One reason why Warne is rated so highly is Gatting’s reaction to the so called “ball of the century.” The shock that that ball sent through the cricketing world was immense because it was thought no one else could bowl that delivery. Actually, Warne was not the only one to bowl such a delivery in recent years, Abdul Qadir had bowled the same delivery a few years earlier, it just wasn’t highlighted at the time because it wasn't on such a big stage. Murali bowled similar balls which were every bit as good to both Sadgapan Ramesh and Mark Butcher a few years ago.

Murali was recently voted the best bowler ever in an objective Wisden analysis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/2572069.stm

ReallyCrazy said:
Warne sucks
Warne does not "suck". If this was true then all but about twenty (or less) bowlers in history do also.


ReallyCrazy said:
Warne will get killed in India. In 1998, it was Sidhu and Tendulkar who took him apart. In 2001, it was Laxman and Dravid. And this year, it will be Sehwag, Ganguly, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman and Yuvraj piling up on him and beating him to a pulp.
Its always dangerous to predict the future.

ReallyCrazy said:
If Warne goes down as a great spinner just coz he's australian, then thats just wrong
Its not just because he is Australian. 527 wickets at 25 is outstanding, his performances between 1993-97 were legendary, and he has performed well against all teams except India. Although his reputation (ie best spinner ever) outweighs the facts, he is definitely a great bowler.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Murali is brilliant in turning conditions, but he has them ready made for him. When he does come up against a non turning pitch, he is not particularly brilliant. Warne however, has other ways to take wickets other than huge turn, and so often is better on pitches that do not offer help.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
a massive zebra said:
By the same token, Warne is a convicted drug cheat and match fixer, while also being well known for womanising.

No one is completely clean although of those four, Dravid must surely be the most honest, sincere and honorable.
He didn't match fix. If he had he'd be baned by now. Salim Malik was the match fixer, and Shane Warne and Tim May helped catch him.

I don't reckon those drugs were on purpose.
 

Swervy

International Captain
NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


can we please steer clear of the whole Murali vs Warne thing :blowup:
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
a massive zebra said:
Were we exchanging a barage of hurtful insults 8-)
It was just tending to ge the way of so many similar discussions - and when a certain person logs on, will probably do so again.
 

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
We've done this one debate to death time and time again.

Some people cannot accept that it could be construed that Warne is superior to Muralitharan. Others can't credit that fact that it can be argued that Muralitharan is superior to Warne. With the result that people post the same thing time and time and time again and no-one gets anywhere, and a lot of people get wound up.
 

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