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Why is Vaughan Practically Useless In One Dayers

a massive zebra

International Captain
I blame arrogance and complacence for many of his downfalls.......... its not like he doesn't have the skill or the technique. But in all honesty, even in domestic one day cricket for Yorkshire, his record is nothing to write home about (average 27), so we should probably not be surprised that he does bugger all at the international level. A brief look at his record year by year shows that there are no signs of improvement.

2001 (age: 26y 64d) 6 6 0 42 26 7.00 0 0
2002 (27y 64d) 11 10 1 253 63 28.11 0 2
2003 (28y 64d) 22 22 3 587 83 30.89 0 4
2004 (29y 64d) 13 12 0 231 74 19.25 0 2

What do you think?
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
Interestingly, when out bowled, he averages just 3.60! Also, his average overseas (29) is 10 runs higher than at home (19), and when he loses the toss he averages 9 runs more than when he wins it (28 to 19).

:wacko: :mellow: :blink: :huh:
 

Swervy

International Captain
a massive zebra said:
I blame arrogance and complacence for many of his downfalls.......... its not like he doesn't have the skill or the technique. But in all honesty, even in domestic one day cricket for Yorkshire, his record is nothing to write home about (average 27), so we should probably not be surprised that he does bugger all at the international level. A brief look at his record year by year shows that there are no signs of improvement.

2001 (age: 26y 64d) 6 6 0 42 26 7.00 0 0
2002 (27y 64d) 11 10 1 253 63 28.11 0 2
2003 (28y 64d) 22 22 3 587 83 30.89 0 4
2004 (29y 64d) 13 12 0 231 74 19.25 0 2

What do you think?
i wouldnt put it down to arrogance at all...I think he looks alot more relaxed in a test environment whilst batting,hence he does better in tests. I am sure it frustrates him as well, which probably adds to the problems.

I think (hope, for his sake) if a couple of things go his way (like the odd dropped catch whilst he is batting etc) and he gets a few biggish scores soon, he might turn it around
 

Swervy

International Captain
a massive zebra said:
Interestingly, when out bowled, he averages just 3.60! Also, his average overseas (29) is 10 runs higher than at home (19), and when he loses the toss he averages 9 runs more than when he wins it (28 to 19).

:wacko: :mellow: :blink: :huh:
I think that just suggests he is very vunerable very early on in an innings to the straight ball
 

Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think Vaughan struggles, particularly early in his innings because there aren't as many gaps in the field as there are in tests. The same happened to Slater, in tests, it was easy to plug one or two through cover, work a few threw midwicket and get the innings going. However, in ODIs these areas are usually plugged from ball one. I think he would be better served and adapt his game like Hayden, who tends to work singles early in his innings in ODIs, although it is very easy to do that with Gilchrist & Ponting at the other end.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
a massive zebra said:
And when set, he has no problems whatsoever with yorkers etc.
Well, if he'd been bowled just once by one when set, there's no way that number would be so low.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Swervy said:
i wouldnt put it down to arrogance at all...I think he looks alot more relaxed in a test environment whilst batting,hence he does better in tests. I am sure it frustrates him as well, which probably adds to the problems.
whatever you wanna call it, i would say that anyone who goes after balls wide outside off stump and is basically playing shots too early in his innings is playing extremely rashly especially considering that he still hasnt settled into ODI cricket.
 

Swervy

International Captain
tooextracool said:
whatever you wanna call it, i would say that anyone who goes after balls wide outside off stump and is basically playing shots too early in his innings is playing extremely rashly especially considering that he still hasnt settled into ODI cricket.
yeah,,but it isnt arrogance...its something he needs to sort out, but he is a class player and i would say IF he sorts this mental thing out (and it can only be a mental thing),he should succeed...of course that is a big IF
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I would agree with Kyle that the problems are similar to Michael Slater's - Vaughan in Test-cricket scores a lot of runs in boundaries and you can't do that in one-day cricket. Equally, Vaughan is much more a play-from-the-crease player and isn't especially good at improvising.
However good someone is at playing in the orthodox way, and however much conventional thinking would have it that the best players must be able to do anything neccessary for success in both game-forms, it's not true.
Vaughan has never been a good one-day-player, in all of 11 years playing the game at the top level. IMO it's almost impossible for that to change in the remainder of his career.
 
Massive Zebra

I think you are underrating Vaughan's skills. This guy is a real rock when the chips are down and his uncanny ability to put away the stray ball outside of offstump is quite remarkable. You would be well advised to recheck some of your stats because many of his lower scores were due to poor support from his lesser skilled team mates. And don't forget that Vaughan rarely is caught off his guard with the googly.
 

nzidol

School Boy/Girl Captain
It does seem to be an anomaly, however I can see him doing a lot better than Slater. For starters he is a much better player than Slater and has more shots, so can probably adapt better to the oneday game. You'd be a fool to drop him, he's just too good, he's a class act.
 

nzidol

School Boy/Girl Captain
Pinkline Jones said:
Vaughan is pathetic. Not footwork Yorkshireman with all the flair of Geoff
Boycott
If thats what you think then its you who is pathetic.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
I agree with Pinkline with regards to the Yorkshire bit, its obvious Vaughan has talent, being born in Manchester gave him that, but the problems he has in one day cricket seem to result from his upbringing in Sheffield and later at YCCC, where the coaching and facilities are of a much poorer standard than accross the penines :p
 

Swervy

International Captain
superkingdave said:
I agree with Pinkline with regards to the Yorkshire bit, its obvious Vaughan has talent, being born in Manchester gave him that, but the problems he has in one day cricket seem to result from his upbringing in Sheffield and later at YCCC, where the coaching and facilities are of a much poorer standard than accross the penines :p
yes this is true..having infiltrated the Yorkshire area 7 years ago from Lancashire, I see that cricket in this god forsaken county is 20 years behind the times..and so 30 years behind lancashire :D

For me, vaughan is one of the best England batsmen of the last 30 years, but I am baffled about his continued lack of success at ODI level
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Richard said:
I would agree with Kyle that the problems are similar to Michael Slater's - Vaughan in Test-cricket scores a lot of runs in boundaries and you can't do that in one-day cricket. Equally, Vaughan is much more a play-from-the-crease player and isn't especially good at improvising.
However good someone is at playing in the orthodox way, and however much conventional thinking would have it that the best players must be able to do anything neccessary for success in both game-forms, it's not true.
Vaughan has never been a good one-day-player, in all of 11 years playing the game at the top level. IMO it's almost impossible for that to change in the remainder of his career.
I agree with the lack of imrpovisation. Looking at even the more defensive players in world cricket and how some of them have still managed to succeed in ODI cricket, it's because of improvisation. Take Chanderpaul. How many would have though he'd do anything significant in ODIs? Few, yet he's a great improviser and has, over the course of the last couple of years, been one of the better ODI batsmen in the world.

Michael Vaughan needs to try something different very soon. Personally I'd have had him out for Adam Hollioake since a couple years ago, but he's still there, so he might as contribute something.
 

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