The Standard Of Fast Bowling

[Son Of Coco]

As the team's main pace strike bowler, I expect he would get choice of ends, so may well have gone downhill in recent matches if the ground had a slope....

haha, yeah I think when he starts going uphill into a strong wind is when there'll be something to be concerned about.

 

[anzac]

well I think the flatter the wickets are that bowlers are learning to bowl on, then eventually skills in variations (cut, slower balls etc) and the positioning of the seam in the right place HAVE to be improved in order for them to get results.
Class bowlers will tend to succeed quite a lot even on flat pitches, if they have learnt the approriate skills (or naturally have the approriate skills) to do so,

So for me, the flatter the pitch(esp on the first 3 days) the better (ideally offering some decent bounce,and later on some turn)

these tactics are pretty much the tactics that have been used for however long I have watched test cricket...i dont think much has changed in that way.

Containment has always been a part of test cricket,and will continue to be so

while I agree in principle with what you are saying, I still think that the pitches are too dead / slow to offer the assistance / encouragement to develop seam bowling - and perhaps the skills are not being developed / passed on to the current / upcoming generation.............at least not at a domestic level without the need to bring in specialist coaches to assist.......

I agree that containment is part of Test cricket, but bowlers were expected to look to take wickets - now as a result of so much cricket (esp ODIs), I believe the bowlers are more inclined to conserve their efforts than b4..........esp if there is little / no assistance from the pitch.............

I'm still not sure I'm saying this right................

 

[Don]

fast bowling has dropped for one reason and one reason alone and that reason is me and my 6 short balls an over.

 

[Swervy]

while I agree in principle with what you are saying, I still think that the pitches are too dead / slow to offer the assistance / encouragement to develop seam bowling - and perhaps the skills are not being developed / passed on to the current / upcoming generation.............at least not at a domestic level without the need to bring in specialist coaches to assist.......

I agree that containment is part of Test cricket, but bowlers were expected to look to take wickets - now as a result of so much cricket (esp ODIs), I believe the bowlers are more inclined to conserve their efforts than b4..........esp if there is little / no assistance from the pitch.............

I'm still not sure I'm saying this right................

i guess its a fine line between having a good test wicket and a bowlers graveyard

 

[Tom Halsey]

IMO the perfect Test pitch should seam a bit at the start, then flatten out a bit in the middle, and turn towards the end.

 

[tooextracool]

im not a big fan of the wicket must have everything.....it would be pointless if only one team got to bat in conditions that offered something for the seamer, while the other got to bat in flat/turning conditions.
the ideal wicket for me was the one we saw in the 3rd test at old trafford, because the conditions stayed pretty much the same throughout the match and offered something for the quality bowlers.

 

[Son Of Coco]

IMO the perfect Test pitch should seam a bit at the start, then flatten out a bit in the middle, and turn towards the end.

If it flattens out a bit in the middle and then turns towards the end wouldn't you have a wicket with a summit and then a downhill curve at each end? You'd only see the batsman's helmet over the middle of the wicket!

 

[marc71178]

Trevor Hohns though McGrath was going downhill for some time...

Then McGrath returned...

 

[Son Of Coco]

Trevor Hohns though McGrath was going downhill for some time...

Yeah, but it turned out that Hohns was actually just sitting on an angle.

 

[Richard]

IMO the perfect Test pitch should seam a bit at the start, then flatten out a bit in the middle, and turn towards the end.

You see, I don't think you can expect one wicket to have everything, as you and a few others have intimated here.
For me, you want proper seaming wickets in England, Zimbabwe and New Zealand, turning pitches in the subcontinent (and West Indies if that's the path they choose) and pitches that offer a bit to the seamers but not as much as in England and New Zealand in South Africa and Australia (and West Indies if that's what they prefer).
Then you have a diversity of conditions which differ wherever you go - that's the beauty of playing cricket around The World.
Personally I don't have the slightest wish to see green seamers in Sri Lanka or turners in England. At the Test grounds, at least - there must, of course, always be some variation around the domestic scene, too - but you can almost gurantee that. You certainly can in England, there are so many grounds.
Wantage Road, Northampton, for instance, is almost a typical subcontinent wicket; there are one or two proper seaming grounds, and there are grounds (The Oval, Taunton to the fore) which produce wickets regularly which help neither seam nor spin.

 

[SafirXP]

one thing that really bothers me is that nowadays quick bowlers are reluctant to bowl yorkers i think... cause i hardly ever see them bowled! come on... if you're a fast bowler, the most attacking ball you can bowl is the yorker!!! there was a time when i used to see the top fast bowlers in the world running in and bowling 2/3 yorkers an over in the latter stages of the innings, especially in ODIs! what do you guys think?

 

[Richard]

There are certainly less bowlers capable of bowling in(usually reverse)-swinging Yorkers at the end of a one-day innings - one reason why domestic-one-day and ODI scores are so much higher ATM than they were 3-4 years ago.
But of course it's equally about the inability to bowl line-and-length in the middle and at the start, too.
As for Yorkers in Test-matches, a straight Yorker never troubled good batsmen much if they were playing normally (even at 90mph). An inswinging Yorker is a different matter!

 

[Neil Pickup]

Harmison's yorker to Laxman at Lord's wasn't bad, was it?!

 

[aussie_beater]

Harmison's yorker to Laxman at Lord's wasn't bad, was it?!

that was wicked

 

[anzac]

You see, I don't think you can expect one wicket to have everything, as you and a few others have intimated here.
For me, you want proper seaming wickets in England, Zimbabwe and New Zealand, turning pitches in the subcontinent (and West Indies if that's the path they choose) and pitches that offer a bit to the seamers but not as much as in England and New Zealand in South Africa and Australia (and West Indies if that's what they prefer).
Then you have a diversity of conditions which differ wherever you go - that's the beauty of playing cricket around The World.

I'm not advocating to have the exact same type of pitches wherever you go - local soil / ground / weather conditions would prohibit that for a start, and I agree that you need different conditions in each country as you've indicated.

But I also think that with that you can have pitch behaviour as indicated - just the degree of the relative variations would differ based upon the local conditions - NZL & ENG would seam / swing more & spin less & still stay a bit lower & slower, the sub continent would do the opposite & AUS / RSA & WIN would do less of each but with more pace & bounce.......

and as you said you can develop individual pitches to reflect a certain bias in one direction or another - AUCK used to be a low / slow pitch that encouraged seam & swing, JADE had pace & bounce & The Basin offered more for spin - yet all used to offer something for everyone throughout the 5 Days.............

I don't mind if a match or two ends on the 4th day provided it has been a good / even contest.........the recent ENG v NZL series is a case in point - neither team played flawless cricket but both played well enough to make it a spectacle rather than a farce, and despite the scoreline & matches not going the full distance both teams had a shout going into the last innings.........

IMO we have become too preoccupied in producing wickets that are 'dead' to make matches last 5 days, and to provide batting surfaces as per ODIs...........this move has been to compensate for the AUS tactics / dominance & the substandard of the opposition - not just the BAN & ZIM scenarios, but the overall decline in standards across the board..........again IMO the reason for this has been the AUS 'system' stealing a march on the rest of us...........hence AUS has probably been in it's strongest position across the board, whereas the rest of us are not as strong / established as we were 10 years ago..............& not just in the bowling dept...........

 

[Swervy]

Harmison's yorker to Laxman at Lord's wasn't bad, was it?!

indeed it was...and I think that that kind of straight ball gets wickets more often than Richard thinks (if he cares to trawl through his vast library of video footage spanning the entire history of test cricket,he might take a different view on the fast straight yorker)

 

[Scallywag]

Another thing that todays fast bowlers have to contend with is making sure they bowl 90 overs in a day.

 

[marc71178]

Don't see the problem there.

Previous teams didn't have a problem with up to 110 or more in a day.

How come 90 is now almost unattainable in 6 hours?

 

[Choora]

Does anyone else think that the standard of fast bowling in world cricket is alarmingly poor? Unlike a few years ago - with players like Wasim, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock (at his peak) etc - there seem to be very few quality quicks. Sure, guys like Lee, Akhtar and Lawson have the odd good burst, but it's not sustained. Even in Australia, especially with McGrath's decline, the cupboard is worringly thin. Must be great to be an opening batsman these days.

I think the standard of fast bowling has indeed declined BUT ONLY in certain part of the world,like for example in countries like Pak,SA and Wi.These countries used to produce quality pacers, but unfortunately thats not the case anymore.

Interestingly teams like India and Eng, that weren't exactly the "powerhouse" (as far as fast bowling was concerned) seems to be right at the top atm.Its players like Harmison,L Balaji,Pathan and Hoggard that are emerging as the new force in world cricket!

 

[tooextracool]

Interestingly teams like India and Eng, that weren't exactly the "powerhouse" (as far as fast bowling was concerned) seems to be right at the top atm.Its players like Harmison,L Balaji,Pathan and Hoggard that are emerging as the new force in world cricket!

you have got to be kidding!