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NZL A in RSA

anzac

International Debutant
is it time to bemoan the current situation re NZL cricket - first off the Black Caps show their worst type of batting behaviour v AUS in the ICC Tourney, then NZL 'A' get smashed in 3 days by RSA 'A'..................

I understand that the pitch has had a bit in it in both NZL innings - but I fail to understand how RSA can post 300+ in the same wicket in a little over a days play in between the 2 NZL innings, and we collapse again to be all out for less than 150 in our 2nd innings..............

the only explanations I can think of would be along the lines that we did not have the experience to bowl in the right places to get the best from the pitch (as per the ENG tests - Martin & Franklin again..........), we did not have enough pace on offer to take the edges, or we just bowled crap line & length being too used to our low pitches & not getting any left from balls of a good length..........or a combination of all of the above........

It may be a bit harsh but I'm disappointed that Walmsley took the wickets - primarily as he's not really a player for the future & is unlikely to be able to force his way into the full squad anytime soon - not encouraging signs from the likes of Martin & Franklin..............

very disappointing to see experienced players such as Sinclair & Vincent putting a string or poor innings together..........How & Taylor have been a bit of a disappointment, with only Fulton & perhaps Hopkins showning any consistant credibility with the bat so far.............

a lot of players need to show some vast improvement in the rest of the series - not just in scores but more importantly in their application - otherwise the likes of McMillan, Astle, Styris, Cairns & Harris look pretty secure in either Tests, ODIs or both.............

even more so with the BAN series coming up & then AUS both Home & Away.....perfect opportunity to put your hand up for squad berths........
 

anzac

International Debutant
I must say that I was surprised that NZL went ahead & brought Wiseman into the starting lineup on a green top.............I would have thought they'd drop spin in favor of swing & seam.............

so far as the lineup for the 3rd 'test' in 3 days..............

with all players having a run it's hard to see anyone standing out to be included or discarded..............without knowing how they have been playing at the crease..........

I dare say the top 4 in the batting are 'secure' as there aren't any alternatives.......Vincent could be challenged at #5 by Taylor if Taylor had some scores to better him..........

so far as the bowling goes I'd expect to see Canning back - with Martin & Franklin the more likely to miss out - that said it would probably be Sherlock who goes as he's "the 15th choice"................

so far it would seem that the bowling attacks would have been better suited the other way around so far as the pitches go..................

hopefully they will do a better job re selections and decisions at the toss.......
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Here's a brief interview with a cricinfo correspondent about this tour. Vincent has said they're struggling with the bounce, which although not surprising, still sounds slightly odd from a WACA test centurion!

http://www.radiosport.co.nz/ThisWeek/12130.wma (5.30 minutes in)

In regards to Anzac's comments, I'm cautious about jumping on NZ 'A' solely for losing heavily to their RSA equivalent on a tour there. I think every country outside Aus 'A' would find it a daunting challenge.

However, there are still a few issues of concern. This tour was a great chance for Chris Martin to get a Kookaburra back in his hand and bowl at least as well as he did when he toured SA in 2000, but results-wise that just hasn't happened. It looks like he's keen for another stint in the wilderness, perhaps for good this time.

The batting can't help but look shaky with Franklin attempting to be an international #6, especially in foreign conditions. This is compounded by Bell being not much more use than a tail-ender, so with that much pressure on the batsmen from 2-5 it hasn't surprised me that our innings have either turned into collapses or two-an-over grinds.

On the bright side, 3 players with realistic BC ambitions (Fulton, Sherlock and Hopkins) still have a good chance of returning home with their CVs enhanced.
 
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anzac

International Debutant
I'm very disappointed that none of the so called senior players have shown the way with either bat or ball...............

Hopkins was on the ENG tour as the #2 'keeper & should retain that pos....
Sherlock is still too green to be a serious contender as yet - but with the failure of Martin & Franklin to impress with the ball perhaps he could be a long shot for a squad place for BAN...........Fulton has appeared solid without being dominant - but I don't think the selectors will be willing to drop Macca after his usual 1 - 2 innings makes an international season type displays.....

I also think the bowling attacks were wrong for the pitches.........

and IMO they are playing Franklin at #6 as a combination of:
NZL intl teams playing an 'allrounder' at #6 - Cairns / Oram;
the front line bowlers not standing out;
and not having a genuine bowling option from any of the batsmen in the top 5 to supplement a 'specialist' 4 bowler attack.............

The timing of the series could have been a bit more user friendly, as players like Papps, Marshall & Butler could all have done with a run on AUS type conditions...........
 

Kent

State 12th Man
anzac said:
Sherlock is still too green to be a serious contender as yet - but with the failure of Martin & Franklin to impress with the ball perhaps he could be a long shot for a squad place for BAN.....
There's no doubt Sherlock should be given at least a season at domestic level. Then again, if he really does bowl at 140+ and was keen for the chance, I'd struggle to point out what Butler has actually done to be ahead of him.

Obviously Butler's 12 months older and has more experience, but as Tim said earlier it's time he actually showed that maturity. He still has high averages, consistently high RPOs and bowls plenty of no-balls, while Sherlock is showing early signs of being more disciplined.
 

anzac

International Debutant
going a lot better now after being 4/1 & 8/2..............
a good recovery from Sinclair 143* & Vincent 63, with Fulton continuing on 39* with NZL A 261/3...............

unfortunately the batsmen have done it a bit too late re the BAN squad, with Marshall getting Macca's spot...............Sinclair & Vincent lost out on an opportunity there big time..................

Sherlock is unlucky to be replaced for this game IMO as niether Franklin or Martin had done anything with the ball - likewise I'm surprised that Canning didn't get another run, but expect him to do so in the ODIs...............
 

anzac

International Debutant
281/4 at stumps..........
Sinclair 149* & Franklin 13*
Fulton 41, Vincent 63, How 1 & Bell 4.............
RPO = 3.16

Sinclair continues his history of boom / bust..............
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Poor old Fulton - gets another good start and gets out just before stumps. Worse still it was an edge down the leg-side off Prince, who isn't even classified by cricinfo as a bowler!
 

Kent

State 12th Man
anzac said:
unfortunately the batsmen have done it a bit too late re the BAN squad, with Marshall getting Macca's spot...............Sinclair & Vincent lost out on an opportunity there big time.................
You know, I'm not even sure this big ton by Sinclair would've made a difference to be honest. Stories like the one below were tipping Marshall to enter the test team as far back as July.

Sorry for not posting this earlier actually Anzac - I know you're interested in these 'to advance the game or not' theories.

NEW ZEALAND coach John Bracewell wants to put the handbrake on his test side.

Less than a week after arriving back in the country and a day after New Zealand's test ranking was listed at No 7, Bracewell zeroed in on the scoring rate of his batsmen as a big issue facing the team.

The reassuring thing about Bracewell-coached sides is that there is never a danger of heavy losses being swept under the carpet, and the 3-0 whitewash by England has resulted in a comprehensive analysis of the tour, by him at least.

He remains fiercely loyal to his current crop of players but changes in the way his side plays test cricket are imminent, most notably a more cautious approach by his batsmen.

It could even see the emergence of the level-headed Hamish Marshall in the middle order despite a first-class record of 47 matches without a hundred and an average of 26.15.

"Jeremy Coney didn't have the flashiest of first-class records either but he succeeded at the next level up," Bracewell said.

Signs of strategic change come as no great surprise. Bracewell spent his first season at Gloucestershire observing the county's play before stepping in and steering them to scarcely believable heights in the limited-overs game.

It seems he has taken a similar but slightly less stand-off position with the Black Caps. While a lack of bowling penetration is the side's obvious Achilles heel, Bracewell seems to be of the opinion it is not a problem that can be fixed overnight, but the attitude and approach of his middle-order batsmen can.

"If we have a fault in our test cricket it is we tend to want to play at a tempo that we can't," Bracewell said.

"We want to score at four runs an over like Australia rather than what suits us better. Mark Richardson knows what paces he bats at. Others needs to learn that as well."

Bracewell speaks in loose terms but anyone from No 2 to No 8 could be at fault and it's not often Bracewell fails to get his way.

The old coaching theory that you learn more about your side when they lose is certainly accurate in the case of the England tour.

Bracewell described last summer as "a bit of honeymoon" for everyone, so the results in the longer form of the game in England had been a "reality check". "We played good cricket for four out of five days but got beaten up on the other, and when that happens you get to know the players better -- you get to observe their character.

"I have a better understanding of the character of my players. Guys who thrive when it gets tough and guys who struggle. It doesn't eliminate the ones that struggle but does give you an indication about certain things.
"The team failed under pressure. It showed it was susceptible to a team coming at us hard. I'm interested in that."

Which individuals caved in under pressure is open to debate. Nathan Astle, Craig McMillan and Scott Styris had disappointing returns with the bat while Chris Martin, Daryl Tuffey and Daniel Vettori did not set the world alight with the ball.

There are fears that Martin's wicket-taking frenzy against South Africa was an aberration, but he still figures in Bracewell's plans.

"He needs the guys at the other end bowling maidens and they weren't doing that.
"I've no problem with Chris Martin at all. His seam is beautiful and he is a strike bowler."

Tuffey is the head scratcher. Bracewell admitted the Mr Reliable of the attack is now under some pressure, especially after Ian Butler made such an impression in the one-day series.
"I don't think that will do Daryl any harm. His pace dropped off alarmingly after four overs and we are looking into the reasons why."

Bracewell felt Vettori had turned the corner during the second test at Headingley when he dismissed Andrew Strauss and Mark Butcher in quick succession, only to suffer a hamstring injury later in the day.
"I've never had any doubt about Dan but when the individual starts reading articles and looking at stats they weigh heavily, especially if you live in the world of high expectation.
"He measures himself against great players of bygone, and when he's not getting success self doubt creeps in.
"At Headingley that day I saw it click. The head was in the right place, he was making the ball drop, he was looking dangerous every ball."

Butler's development was close to the highlight of the tour for Bracewell. With Shane Bond's future cloudy at best, Butler is suddenly the only bowler capable of dishing up the chin music.
"Pace is a huge issue, especially when we don't know when Shane Bond will be back or even if he will get back.
"Buts looks strong and he's got an ego. He's always looking over his shoulder at the speedball radar. That's good.

"But pace in this country is something lacking and it is possibly a task for the High Performance Centre -- what is pace and how do we generate it."

Wellington's James Franklin remains firmly in the frame despite his tendency to set the world alight and then go off the boil.

Bracewell fielded calls from virtually every county wanting to sign Jacob Oram on a short-term contract, but he instead steered Franklin to Gloucester, feeling he would learn plenty from Mike Smith, whom he regards as the best left-arm swing bowler in England.

Bracewell is keen for Franklin to come from wider on the crease, believing it will enhance his ability to bowl quick. He feels Franklin is too close to the umpire and is always in a rush to get off the wicket in his follow through.
 
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anzac

International Debutant
Kent said:
Sorry for not posting this earlier actually Anzac - I know you're interested in these 'to advance the game or not' theories.
thanx for that - supports what I have been saying for some time...........

*the current NZL test batting lineup is NOT suited to 'advance the game' theory unless in form & well established (the AUS batsmen can do so at will due to their better technical ability, whereas we are brought up on slow/low pitches & struggle with bounce & pace)....

*Marshall's style & temperament are deserving of a squad position..........

*my main concern has been the lack of a batsman in the middle order to cement the innings & take on the role to build partnerships & not let the stroke makers self destruct in the 'red mist'...........

*Franklin & Butler can be viable options with a bit of a change - they are both young enough to do so...............

I like what I read from Bracewell & hope he follows thru - not only that but that it doesn't take another season for some more of this affirmative action if required..............
 

anzac

International Debutant
Kent said:
You know, I'm not even sure this big ton by Sinclair would've made a difference to be honest. Stories like the one below were tipping Marshall to enter the test team as far back as July.
I'm not so sure................

Sinclair has been the batsman called in to cover the squad thus far under Bracewell - both Home v RSA & then in the next Tour Away in ENG (where he didn't get a run in the side)................he also went to PAK for the ODI series with Marshall & was the only other batsman to do anything.........

based upon that then I'd say that he would have been 1st choice but failed to dominate in this 'A' series after a good start..............his temperament is also a big plus in his favour as we know he'll not throw his wicket away once he gets in.........

Marshall had a good Tri-Series in ENG, but hasn't followed it up in the ICC Tourneyment..............

as much as anything I'd say Marshall got the nod as part of the numbers game re squad places on Tour, as he's an established & important member of the ODI side

I remember reading something somewhere about NZC reducing numbers to keep with their 20 contracted players - perhaps a return to the days with less ODI 'specialists', but also begs the question when a player is dropped from either squad..........
 

anzac

International Debutant
NZL A now 480/6..............Sinclair 268*.................

will they let Sinclair go for 300, will they declare if he gets out?????????
 

anzac

International Debutant
RSA A 325/4 in reply at stumps on Day 3 - nothing but a draw here with RSA A to take the series 1-0................

Martin without a wicket & Franklin 23 10 38 3 @ 1.65 RPO

looks to have his nose in front for BAN series..................
 

anzac

International Debutant
ah but it gets stranger than fiction.................

match drawn as predicted with RSA A taking a 'first innings lead'.................

but the bowling figures for NZL A show that only Fulton & Hopkins did NOT get a bowl..............

none of the frontline seam bowlers seems to have made much of an appearance during the day's play, with Wiseman being the mainstay.........

How 24 3 89 1
Wiseman 47 5 130 0
Vincent 13 2 43 1
Sinclair 4 2 4 1
Bell 3 0 12 0

it doesn't say much for our spin bowling if Wiseman is our #2................

and I'd like to know what Sinclair was bowling & was he really any good - just looking for other bowling options from out batsmen as I don't recall Astle doing anything during the ENG tour, which currently leaves only Styris & Macca from the batsmen...............
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
Wow Sinclair, he can keep wickets, and take them. Damn selectors should include him. From what I understand Astle won't be bowling anymore because of his knees, althought he does want to bowl.
 

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