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Thread: Here's an idea for Englands ODI squad!!

  1. #376
    Hall of Fame Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    I'm not trying to put an exact number on it - but there must be an approximate, denominate number.
    Personally I just think it is far more often perceived that the batsman is feeling under pressure when he is not, anyway, you know that.
    Didn't you say in another thread that a bowler who takes a wicket with a bad ball deserves no credit - irrespective of how many great balls he has delivered before in the spell?

    Your reason was that the bastman should be able to put those out of his mind if he's any good.

    I'd be interested to know why, you think, the same batsman is not able to mentally suppress how badly he is scoring. Why should there be ANY pressure?
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  2. #377
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    There's no way you've experienced an infinite number of such incidents...
    No, "infinate" is an exaggeration, used commonly by many people in all sorts of contexts.
    It just, basically, means "on more occasions than I can put a number on".
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  3. #378
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    How do you know it's not comparable?

    Or are you just summising?

    At least I have some experience of big crowds and the difference it makes to a performer.
    Except that it's a totally different type of performance.

  4. #379
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    Didn't you say in another thread that a bowler who takes a wicket with a bad ball deserves no credit - irrespective of how many great balls he has delivered before in the spell?

    Your reason was that the bastman should be able to put those out of his mind if he's any good.

    I'd be interested to know why, you think, the same batsman is not able to mentally suppress how badly he is scoring. Why should there be ANY pressure?
    I do think exactly that - no batsman should be worried about how slowly he is scoring.
    I am talking about when people commonly perceive him to be feeling worried by that.


  5. #380
    Hall of Fame Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    No, "infinate" is an exaggeration, used commonly by many people in all sorts of contexts..
    ...used commonly by an infinite number of people in an infinite distribution of contexts, surely?

  6. #381
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    Please explain to me how McGrath and Pollock have been lucky, it's something I've been dying to hear for a while....

    There is no pressure if a batsmen scores runs off you at a consistent rate, we've said that before.

    What exactly is your experience Richard? I have a feeling that you're not very old, I know you haven't played a high level of cricket, your experience comes down to watching a lot of cricket on TV - so you're basically an armchair expert.
    You can see how old I am if you want - look at my profile.
    Yes, I'd class myself as an "armchair expert" - but I'd equally argue that there's nothing you can't learn by watching closely from the chair or the stand-seat that you can learn by watching from on the field.
    And with regards your leading-line question: as far as I'm concerned, Pollock and McGrath - Pollock, of late (before the Sri Lanka series) a little less so than McGrath - are lucky because they get a large amount of poor strokes played against them when their bowling is unthreatening, something I've seen very few other bowlers have the sustained fortune of. Not that I've not seen them have it over a shorter period.

  7. #382
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    ...used commonly by an infinite number of people in an infinite distribution of contexts, surely?
    Depends whether you're exaggerating or not!

  8. #383
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    No, it's got to do with the fact that he could bowl off-cutters and leg-cutters to order.
    Funnily enough, that's the reason why comparisons between Harmison and Ambrose, which have happened for donkey's years, since the very first time I ever saw a televised match in which Harmison was bowling (Durham, 1999, Championship, can't remember the opposition), are a huge insult to the great West Indian. Hell, Harmison's not even as good at exploiting seam-movement as Ambrose was (not that many of the Test-pitches Harmison has bowled on have offered that much seam).
    i do get the feeling that you think that anyone who played in that 2000 WI vs England series can do know wrong despite ist being a series to battle it out for the wooden spoon of world cricket...why is it an insult to compare Harmison to Ambrose , they are both tall, have similar actions..only Harmison is a bit quicker.
    Ambrose most definately was a great, but he did improve throughout his career... allow Harmison similar space to improve, despite the fact he has had a bigger impact on international cricket much earlier on in his career than Ambrose did

    And how can you really say Harmison is not as good as exploiting seam movement as Ambrose was, when in the same sentence you even say Harmison hasnt had the chance to do so...Ambrose really peaked as a bowler around 93 94 ish time, so was aged in his early 30's....Harmison has 5 years on him
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  9. #384
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    You can see how old I am if you want - look at my profile.
    Yes, I'd class myself as an "armchair expert" - but I'd equally argue that there's nothing you can't learn by watching closely from the chair or the stand-seat that you can learn by watching from on the field.
    And with regards your leading-line question: as far as I'm concerned, Pollock and McGrath - Pollock, of late (before the Sri Lanka series) a little less so than McGrath - are lucky because they get a large amount of poor strokes played against them when their bowling is unthreatening, something I've seen very few other bowlers have the sustained fortune of. Not that I've not seen them have it over a shorter period.
    If you truly believe that McGrath and Pollock get the results they do through luck then, as i've said before, maybe you don't pick up as much as you think from the couch. You need to combine your observations with a sound knowledge of the game, and in calling two of the better players of the current era "lucky" you don't seem to be doing this. Combining accuracy with consistently good seam position pretty much guarantees you at least a small amount of movement in quite a few different conditions. Just because you're not swinging the ball a foot doesn't mean nothing is happening. Where these two guys come into their own is that when there's no reall assistance for the bowlers they have their impeccable line and length to fall back on - and even on the worst track you're going to get a bit of movement here or there on occasions. They're definately not straight up and down bowlers, you have to move it quite a bit of the wicket, at decent pace, on a good line and length to get one past batsmen the caliber of whom generally play international cricket believe me.
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 21-09-2004 at 01:09 PM.

  10. #385
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    i do get the feeling that you think that anyone who played in that 2000 WI vs England series can do know wrong despite ist being a series to battle it out for the wooden spoon of world cricket...why is it an insult to compare Harmison to Ambrose , they are both tall, have similar actions..only Harmison is a bit quicker.
    Ambrose most definately was a great, but he did improve throughout his career... allow Harmison similar space to improve, despite the fact he has had a bigger impact on international cricket much earlier on in his career than Ambrose did

    And how can you really say Harmison is not as good as exploiting seam movement as Ambrose was, when in the same sentence you even say Harmison hasnt had the chance to do so...Ambrose really peaked as a bowler around 93 94 ish time, so was aged in his early 30's....Harmison has 5 years on him
    Is Harmison really quicker? Gee Ambrose seemed sharp at times...........(well, nearly all the time actually! haha)

  11. #386
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    Is Harmison really quicker? Gee Ambrose seemed sharp at times...........(well, nearly all the time actually! haha)
    I would say Harmison is on average 4 or 5 mph faster than Ambrose...certainly I doubt Ambrose ever got up to 96/97 mph like harmison did the other day

  12. #387
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    I would say Harmison is on average 4 or 5 mph faster than Ambrose...certainly I doubt Ambrose ever got up to 96/97 mph like harmison did the other day
    was Ambrose taller, more bounce? He just seemed to be a bit more threatening...........maybe it was the superb accuracy.

    Maybe I just recall him with the other great West Indian fast bowlers when they all seemed 10 feet tall and bullet-proof! haha

  13. #388
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    was Ambrose taller, more bounce? He just seemed to be a bit more threatening...........maybe it was the superb accuracy.

    Maybe I just recall him with the other great West Indian fast bowlers when they all seemed 10 feet tall and bullet-proof! haha
    yeah Ambrose was a couple of inches taller...

    Ambrose was a bit like Garner with the bounce and accuracy, but neither one of them was express pace, its just the steep angle of delivery made them both so difficult to play

  14. #389
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    yeah Ambrose was a couple of inches taller...

    Ambrose was a bit like Garner with the bounce and accuracy, but neither one of them was express pace, its just the steep angle of delivery made them both so difficult to play
    ahhh....................*a moment to reminisce*.........those were the days. Even though they flogged us time and time again, it was great to watch brilliant fast bowlers in action.

  15. #390
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    ahhh....................*a moment to reminisce*.........those were the days. Even though they flogged us time and time again, it was great to watch brilliant fast bowlers in action.
    I used to love seeing Garner lolopping in,and then with that great big swirly arm action spear one right into the toes of some poor batsman

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