poor old windies

[sledger]

the west indies need to stop picking bowlers that can ot do anything to benefit their side.

tino best and edwards maybe dfast but their innaccuracy costs the entire team dear.

what has happened to vasbert drakes ? he may not be the most reliable of bowlers but he does a better job than best and edwards.
lawsons remodled action ddoesnt allow him to get any genuine pace any more and where corey collymore does a decent job along with dwayne bravo they cannot be relyd upon for all the time.

another point that i must bring up is y r the 2 takllest playes in the current side both spinners? chris gaylw and omari banks have the height and possible physique to have been developed as geniune pacemen rather than clumsy spinners that are only capable of occaisionally bludgeoning the ball around for a brief speel andd dismissing theteal enders and even with that they struggle./

and yet the pace attack is very short being unable to get any real bounce which shows y the windies struggle so much

 

[Neil Pickup]

It's not just height that marks out someone as a potential fast bowler. Much, much more is to do with fast twitch fibres, flexibility of joints and muscles and arm rotational speed.

You can't have a side with four brisk medium-pacers (which, let's be fair, is what Drakes, Dillon, Collymore, Sanford, Cuffy, Collins are).

Even moreso, Drakes' Test record is pretty dire anyway, even with all of his experience. He's got 33 wickets @ 41 - only marginally better than Best and Edwards (whose strike rates are better - a sign of potential should they sort their economy/control out). Drakes wouldn't have been able to produce spells like Edwards and Best did that such impressed Butcher, Hussain and Thorpe in the Caribbean. Give them time to mature, and they will benefit and in time should reach a higher level than Drakes could ever dream of.

What's wrong is the disunity and infrastructure, more than anything.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

As Neil said, Edwards and Best have a whole bunch of talent and should get better. Edwards really impressed me in the last two Tests and was a bit unlucky.

Regarding infrastructure, the WICB has lengthened the domestic series which should help. However, in typical fashion, they also kick out one of the best things for a developing Windies team - the West Indies B team. Instead of exposing young players to domestic cricket, we'll just be seeing the core members from each country. Way to increase your player pool. :rolleyes:

We now have 6 months off from Test cricket and it's very much needed. Gus Logie has to go and it's almost certain that a foreign coach will replace him. There are rumours that it will be Steve Rixon of Surrey. Whoever it is will have far more powers than any other West Indian coach. He will be in charge of deciding upon his entire staff and I believe have a say in selection.

All in all there's about as much to look forward to as always. The talent is there, but the discipline is not. First step is to replace the captain. Lara out and Sarwan in. From there it's up to the coach until Sarwan leads the boys out in 2005. It's all a bit like the Chicago Cubs in baseball. They were a poor team for so many years and yet every year the fans said "Next year is our year". Now they're one of the best teams in their division and one of the better teams in baseball. Next year...

 

[Swervy]

I Think WI has the makings of a good team. I would suspect lara will be around until just after the world cup , so they have 2 and a half years left out of him. Chanderpaul could well have a good 5 or 6 years in him...he has been very impressive this year...then after that everyone is young.

I think Gayle,Sarwan,Bravo,Collymore form a good nucleus around which the rest of the team can deveop. I am sure Edwards will get better, and I think Tino Best has a lot of potential.

I think Omari banks can develop into a more than handy off spinner at test level and is useful with the bat.(I am not really convinced by Lawson though)

I cant see any reason why these players cant be around for quite a while, in which time they will improve

Its easy to see the negatives in a team which gets hammerred 3-0 then 4-0 in the space of a few months by the same team...but I think the key thing to remember is that England are now a very good team and I really dont think WI should be too downhearted by getting beaten by this England team

 

[Langeveldt]

Au contraire, this West Indies team have been appaling and were nearly left with egg on their faces in Zimbabwe as well.. I am not going to take anything away from an England team who were excellent against SA, and stuffed NZ and WI and are playing their best cricket for many a year...

My problem with them is to be succesful as a test nation you have to be clinical in everything you do.. From preparation, to practice to on field skills... Raw unpolished diamonds will struggle nowadays.. TBH i can't see guys like Dwayne Smith and Bravo doing too much until they get a good few years under a top class coach..

 

[Swervy]

Au contraire, this West Indies team have been appaling and were nearly left with egg on their faces in Zimbabwe as well.. I am not going to take anything away from an England team who were excellent against SA, and stuffed NZ and WI and are playing their best cricket for many a year...

My problem with them is to be succesful as a test nation you have to be clinical in everything you do.. From preparation, to practice to on field skills... Raw unpolished diamonds will struggle nowadays.. TBH i can't see guys like Dwayne Smith and Bravo doing too much until they get a good few years under a top class coach..

they are a very young team...the talent in the team is clearly seen I think.

But because they are young, heads drop too quickly at the moment. They need to learn to be able to be more consistant from one session to the next. If the last session hasnt gone so well, they need to learn that they can do well in the next...this will come with time.

I hope the selectors stick with most of these players, because the more they play together, they will start playing as a team and therefore improve.

yes at time WI played poorly (the first day of the series for me was one of the worst displays of cricket i have ever seen), but for me the positives to be taken out of it are that they looked a lot better in the last two tests, almost as if they were starting to pull it together a bit (and thats a big 'a bit)

Oh and I think Bravo has a big future..he just looks like a good cricketer to me

 

[luckyeddie]

Almost without exception, each member of this West Indies squad ought to be bought the same present - a bathroom mirror.

That's where your answer lies - inside.

 

[marc71178]

the west indies need to stop picking bowlers that can ot do anything to benefit their side.

tino best and edwards maybe dfast but their innaccuracy costs the entire team dear.

TBH, TIno Best cannot be inclued here, owing to his injury,

For me, he's a must pick for the Windies as he has that something about him that the others don't.

 

[marc71178]

My problem with them is to be succesful as a test nation you have to be clinical in everything you do.

Except England are clinical in everything they do and suddenly it changes to "WI and NZ are useless"...

 

[luckyeddie]

Except England are clinical in everything they do and suddenly it changes to "WI and NZ are useless"...

Your point being?

 

[marc71178]

That some people cannot recognise the current England side for what they are.

If we win in SA, it'll be written off with "they're 6th in the world,so aren't any good"

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

My problem with them is to be succesful as a test nation you have to be clinical in everything you do.. From preparation, to practice to on field skills... Raw unpolished diamonds will struggle nowadays.. TBH i can't see guys like Dwayne Smith and Bravo doing too much until they get a good few years under a top class coach..

I think Bravo is a fast learner and intelligent enough that he doesn't necessarily need a top class coach to become a top class player. You say 'doing much' but surely Bravo has done more than was expected of him already! He's scored a couple of fifties and taken a six-wicket haul in his first 4 Tests when his team has been thoroughly whipped. Add to that his 2 fifties have been with the team in trouble.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Overall I think the West Indies played better than they have in overseas series of the past. In every Test match they were in with a chance of at least not losing if not winning. The problem is that the West Indies team doesn't know how to win and England does. Simple. The scoreline would suggest meek surrender by the West Indies and, while there were many moments of such surrender, the West Indies competed far more than they have in other series for the same result.

 

[FRAZ]

Overall I think the West Indies played better than they have in overseas series of the past. In every Test match they were in with a chance of at least not losing if not winning. The problem is that the West Indies team doesn't know how to win and England does. Simple. The scoreline would suggest meek surrender by the West Indies and, while there were many moments of such surrender, the West Indies competed far more than they have in other series for the same result.

Well said .
Just curious , What if They appoint a foreigner as a coach . I know seems not a greatest of idea. The WestIndian team has great talent just like Pakistan but the players are not polished enough .

 

[maxpower]

damn whitewash by ENG that hurts...time to get more weed...

 

[FRAZ]

damn whitewash by ENG that hurts...time to get more weed...

Hey watch it , its enough !!!

 

[luckyeddie]

damn whitewash by ENG that hurts...time to get more weed...

It's ALWAYS time to get more weed

<quack> Mmmmmm pond weed

 

[marc71178]

The scoreline would suggest meek surrender by the West Indies and, while there were many moments of such surrender, the West Indies competed far more than they have in other series for the same result.

Likewise the 3-0 against NZ suggested that they rolled over and died.

The thing is neither side did - England actually played well (which I know a lot of people on here believe to be impossible)

 

[luckyeddie]

Likewise the 3-0 against NZ suggested that they rolled over and died.

The thing is neither side did - England actually played well (which I know a lot of people on here believe to be impossible)

The point is, Marc, that they WANT to believe that England were incapable of playing at the level they have sustained this year so it had to be failure on the part of the opposition, because it would have to be in order to fit into their wan, stereotypical generalisation.

<quack> Of course, that's just a wan, stereotypical generalisation

Thanks, DD.

<quack> Don't mention it

I won't.

<quack> What LE is trying to say is that the majority of cricket fans on here are not old enough to remember any England side as anything other than perennial under-achievers. Whereas this last year might be yet another 'false dawn', it sure as hell has convinced me.

Me

<quack> him

 

[Craig]

Regarding infrastructure, the WICB has lengthened the domestic series which should help. However, in typical fashion, they also kick out one of the best things for a developing Windies team - the West Indies B team. Instead of exposing young players to domestic cricket, we'll just be seeing the core members from each country. Way to increase your player pool. :rolleyes:

Is this going to be a home & away FC competition?

We now have 6 months off from Test cricket and it's very much needed. Gus Logie has to go and it's almost certain that a foreign coach will replace him. There are rumours that it will be Steve Rixon of Surrey. Whoever it is will have far more powers than any other West Indian coach. He will be in charge of deciding upon his entire staff and I believe have a say in selection.

Paul Allott (think it was him) said that Gus Logie wanted out when his contract expired in September during the 4th Test.

Steve Rixon would be a fantastic choice as coach of the West Indies if he gets the job, he turned New Zealand around and got the best out of Chris Cairns and Adam Parore etc. and he also had success with New South Wales. Although this hasn't happened in the County Championship with Surrey.