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Thread: South Africa - captaincy blunder?

  1. #1
    Banned Pratters's Avatar
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    South Africa - captaincy blunder?

    South Africa were spot on in selecting captains from Clive Rice to Wessels to Cronje and then to Pollock after the match fixing saga.

    On hindsight, was replacing Pollock with Smith a mistake? South Africa were undoubtedly the second best team in the world before the appointment of Smith.

    Pollock was a good captain, getting almost every thing right except on that rueful day vs Sri Lanka.

    While Smith doesnt seem to make much tactical errors, the 'fighting' South Africa which would never give up under Cronje and Pollock has not been the same under Smith.

    One can argue that the bowlers have not been as strong but Pollock had almost the same attack, with a weaker Ntini one might add.

    Batting wise, I dont see much difference despite Kirsten not being there any more.

    Would continuing Pollock for a longer term, say till 2007 been better? I certainly feel so.. certainly even unrequired off field incidents with some one like Klusener would not have happened. Smith has been pretty outspoken which is some times good but often shows immaturity if not well thought out..

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    International Debutant SpaceMonkey's Avatar
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    South Africa losing Kirsten was a major blow for me. Certainly against England he always steadied the ship when we threatened to run through their batting order. Very hard to get out.

    Smith is a good captain but needs to be more approachable..which i dont think he is at the moment...well thats the impression he gives to me anyway.

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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    i think he is a good captain..but maybe South Africa dont quite have the talent that they did say 5 years ago...that might be more of a problem than his captaincy..still a good tough team though
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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    maybe not so bad

    regardless of captain i feel that the overall outcome of the progress of the team to this point in time wud have been the same.
    even if pollock had of been captain he wud have been powerless to stop the advance of england or india in the world rankings

    in light of the recent test series against sri lanka south africa can take heart from the fact that very few teams have some away from there with any sort of rsult in recent years as sri lanka have established themselves as very competent side at home.

    and besides it isnt smiths fault that the squad at his disposal contains players that are not capable of realy sucess at this level such ans martin van jaarsvelt and andre nel not to mention the unreliability of lance klusner.


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    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    I'm happy with SA's present captain, although I feel sorry for Polly who had it taken away pointlessly IMO...

    Cronje was in a league of his own.. I'll go further and say that Cronjé and Woolmer were the best management partnership in modern cricket, certainly on a par with Hussain and Fletcher... Woolmer was certainly an outstanding coach..

    Cricket can be over analysed, I just think we are a class bowler, and Hansie Cronje short
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    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger

    and besides it isnt smiths fault that the squad at his disposal contains players that are not capable of realy sucess at this level such ans martin van jaarsvelt and andre nel not to mention the unreliability of lance klusner.
    Van Jaarsveld has hardly had a long run in test cricket, and he has not exactly been a failure... He is a run plunderer in the SuperSport cup, kind of like a Graeme Hick.. I hope he can make the step up a more succesful one than Hicky..

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    Banned Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt
    I'm happy with SA's present captain, although I feel sorry for Polly who had it taken away pointlessly IMO...

    Cronje was in a league of his own.. I'll go further and say that Cronjé and Woolmer were the best management partnership in modern cricket, certainly on a par with Hussain and Fletcher... Woolmer was certainly an outstanding coach..

    Cricket can be over analysed, I just think we are a class bowler, and Hansie Cronje short
    Cronje is definitely the best captain I have seen. South Africa did manage to win that test series in India when Australia could not.

    And they were the best one day side in the world 1997-99.

    South Africa have been my favourite team apart from India and it hurts that they arent vying for top spot at the moment.

    I do believe the captaincy change was unwarranted but there is no way to find out if South Africa would have been better off if Pollock had remained captain. Over analysis always happens in cricket and thats lovely about it too.

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    The problem is , Their bowlers dont seem to have spark . Swing is missing and variety is absent . Ok i Admitt Pollock is good but apart from him who is good . They seem to be believing in too many allrounders but no specialist. They should bring some variety in their bowling . Spin section is even crapier than Bangladesh ...........
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    While Graeme's captaincy isn't anywhere near Hansie's league, I think that in time he could become as good.
    Certainly the South African team has lost a lot minus Kirsten, Hansie, Daryll Cullinan and Allan Donald, and to a lesser extent Stephen Elworthy in the one-day side, while Klusener is clearly not presently the force he was at his forte. But that's not to say that McKenzie and the many seamers (Ntini, Ngam, Nel, Terbrugge, Willoughby, Langeveldt, Hayward and probably a few more I've missed) aren't capable of matching the feats.
    And when Jean-Paul Duminy actually gets a proper chance (I fail to believe a player of such extraordinary promise can be given such a poor "opportunity") maybe things will change very quickly.
    With Graeme an even better player than Kirsten (still think he and Cullinan both retired prematurely) they've gained one massive asset already, it really is rather strange that they have been so inconsistent, and so downright poor in ODIs from WC2003 onwards.
    I cannot fathom the ODI form for the life of me. Their side is IMO wholly superior to everyone else, and yet they've lost to rubbish like England and New Zealand recently.
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    Cricket Web XI Moderator lord_of_darkness's Avatar
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    certainly on a par with Hussain and Fletcher...
    kinda like ganguly and wright im thinking yeh..
    Graeme smith is certainly a good captaining im thinking, hes still got to learn the trade ofcourse, but that will come with time , experience etc.. Certainly i dont see the aggressiveness in the captaincy, but then again maybe he isint that kind of a person.. But it was a bit harsh then again taking the captaincy of Pollock as he did quite a fine job. And i respected Cronje when he was captain.. he was certainly a talent there..

    I cannot fathom the ODI form for the life of me. Their side is IMO wholly superior to everyone else, and yet they've lost to rubbish like England and New Zealand recently.
    Lmao you cant underrate our team that easily..lol calling us rubbish, i think time and time we have proved that we are capable of gettin through well.. we might not have the power on paper unlike teams like Australia ,S.A or India but certainly we have quite good talent that did really well to beat South Africa at our own backyard..
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  11. #11
    International Regular Andre's Avatar
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    IMHO, the South African team has gone down as an ODI collectively since one incident - the Graeme Smith breakfast speech. At the time of making that speech, Lance Klusener - the man attacked by Smith - was still a key component in their ODI outfit. Since then, he has not performed well, and the side has looked a disunified outfit.

    What strikes me is that Klusener has played nearly all of his cricket with the experienced foes of the South African side at the time of the breakfast - Pollock, Klusener, Boucher, Gibbs, Boje - and I think that may have irked those players a little. Klusener had been an ODI hero, and for Smith to write him off like that was a negative move. Klusener is an individual, but at the same time had a quietly spoken but strongly bonded connection with those senior players, so once the 'young gun' started shooting it would have got them offside IMO.

    Since that time, they haven't looked the same - certainly not a proudly bonded and close knit South African unit that we are used to.
    Last edited by Andre; 24-08-2004 at 07:32 AM.

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    Cricket Web XI Moderator lord_of_darkness's Avatar
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    ahh yeh.. good one mentioning that andre. that passed me, like andre said i certainly think has a lot to play with the events surrounding south africas slow downfall.. also the situation regarding Allan Donalds selection then his retirement ofcourse..

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    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre
    IMHO, the South African team has gone down as an ODI collectively since one incident - the Graeme Smith breakfast speech. At the time of making taht speech, Lance Klusener - the man attacked by Smith - was still a key compontent in their ODI outfit. Since then, he has not performed well, and the side has looked a disunified outfit.

    What strikes me is that Klusener has played nearly all of his cricket with the experianced foes of the South African side at the time of the breakfast - Pollock, Klusener, Boucher, Gibbs, Boje - and I think that may have irked those players a little. Klusener had been an ODI hero, and for Smith to write him off like that was a negative move. Klusener is an individual, but at the same time had a quietly spoken but strongly bonded connection with those senior players, so once the 'young gun' started shooting it would have got them offside IMO.

    Since that time, they haven't looked the same - certainly not a proudly bonded and close knit South African unit that we are used to.
    Very Well Said. Zulu has been one of my fav. Cricketers and to seem him being ridiculed by a newcomer was really painful.

  14. #14
    International Regular Andre's Avatar
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    And yet another comprehensive series loss overnight.

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    Cricketer Of The Year JASON's Avatar
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    I think Smith's inexperience seems to be telling at a time when the Team is in crisis!! SA have fallen from great captains like (regardless of Match fixing fiasco) Hansie Cronje, Keppler Wessels, Graeme Pollock etc to suddenly an inexperienced Captain, who is unable to bring the Team together at a point of crisis !!

    I personally feel Kallis may be a better Captain. But Pollock may also be ready to return to his Captains role again.

    Kallis is the better option IMO.

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