Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
I think the Q-word has more to do with it, and/or a bits-and-pieces fixation.
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South Africa - captaincy blunder?
- Thread starter Pratters
- Start date
Langeveldt
Soutie
probably the former..Neil Pickup said:
At least it gives us an excuse for failure, ever thought of that one?
Langeveldt
Soutie
So, you were wrong on both counts thenRichard said:
tooextracool
International Coach
never thought of pollock as much of a captain.....the d/l error didnt help either.Langeveldt said:
tooextracool
International Coach
which is precisely what they are......marc71178 said:
tooextracool
International Coach
yes he was, in fact hansie cronje himself had said it on several occasions before that jonty helped him considerably with his captaincy and in terms of improving team spiritSudeep said:
tooextracool
International Coach
no they just have a bunch of extremely overrated players.Tim said:
kallis-with both bat and ball,ntini and gibbs are all overrated.
tooextracool
International Coach
and he had enough of an impact on the side pre 98 even though he didnt do much with the bat at all.Richard said:
Sudeep
International Captain
* Kallis with the ball, I'd probably agree, especially based on his outings in the last couple of years. Kallis with the bat - overrated, no way.tooextracool said:
* Gibbs can be called overrated based on the fact that he's kind of inconsistent, but I doubt one can agrue against him being talented.
Tim
Cricketer Of The Year
Kallis is certainly not overated with the bat! as for the ball..age has caught up with him. He can't bowl at a lively pace anymore and has been picked off easily..Lance Klusener has also suffered the same problem.
You obviously saw very few ODI matches pre 2000 tooextracool? because Kallis was very effective in the late 90's.
You obviously saw very few ODI matches pre 2000 tooextracool? because Kallis was very effective in the late 90's.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I think some quite odd selections have played a major part in South Africa's downfall.
At the top of them are the omission of Hall and McKenzie, and the fact that Dippenaar, who averages around 40 in ODIs and around 25 in tests, was picked in the test squad and left out of the one day squad. Others include batting Duminy at 8 and picking so many players in front of Langeveldt in ODIs. Robin Peterson also boggles the mind....
At the top of them are the omission of Hall and McKenzie, and the fact that Dippenaar, who averages around 40 in ODIs and around 25 in tests, was picked in the test squad and left out of the one day squad. Others include batting Duminy at 8 and picking so many players in front of Langeveldt in ODIs. Robin Peterson also boggles the mind....
tooextracool
International Coach
i think his averages against the quality bowling sides in the world speak for themselvesCraig said:Kallis is over-rated with the bat?
tooextracool
International Coach
where have i denied that and how much of a bearing does his pre 2000 bowling have on SAs current performances?Tim said:
Legglancer
State Regular
We can be heroes - Smith
Posted on 06 September 2004 - 23:02
South African cricket captain Graeme Smith said his side have the opportunity to become heroes during the Champions Trophy one-day tournaments which start in England later this week.
The Proteas come into the 'mini World Cup' on the back of a 5-0 one-day whitewashing in Sri Lanka.
However, Smith, still one of the youngest captains in world cricket at the age of 23, insisted that far from being downcast South Africa would use the Sri Lankan series to inspire them to greater efforts in England.
"We had a really rusty tour in Sri Lanka," Smith told AFP at the squad's hotel on Monday ahead of their opening Champions match on Sunday against minnows Bangladesh at Edgbaston.
"We didn't perform to the standards we would have liked. We come here a team with a lot of pride hurt.
"The team is obviousy highly motivated because of the way we performed and we come here being big underdogs," added Smith whose side face West Indies in the second match of the tournament at The Oval on September 18.
"Hopefully that can play into our hands and hopefully we can get a really dominant performance in up front against Bangladesh and move on to The Oval against West Indies and do well.
"It's a tournament where if you won four games you are heroes again," left-handed Western Province batsman Smith added.
"It's a knock-out tournament and it will be interesting to see how far we've come since the World Cup."
South Africa staged last year's World Cup and were strongly fancied to do well.
However, their tournament ended in embarrassing fashion when a failure to correctly interpret rain-delay regulations led them to believe they'd beaten Sri Lanka when in fact they had only tied.
The result meant South Africa exited the tournament at the end of the first group stage and sparked a chain of events that saw Smith, omitted from the World Cup squad, replace Shaun Pollock as captain.
However the two men have worked well together since then and Smith stressed that the experienced pace bowler's ability to move the ball late would be vital to the team's chances of success.
"Obviously swing bowlers are crucial. Shaun Pollock will be crucial for us up front. He's been a world-class performer for a number of years.
"And your top four in your batting department are going to have produced the goods up front. Maybe the first 15 overs won't be as dominant as in the past. You can score a lot of runs at the death."
Last year also saw South Africa tour England and it was in the test series where Smith really made his name by scoring back-to-back double hundreds in the first two games of the campaign at Edgbaston and Lord's.
Those performances came after South Africa had lost the preceding one-day series final, against England.
However, despite their bad start the hosts fought back and drew the series 2-2, a result that was the spark for a run of form that has seen England win their last seven tests.
However, many expect that run will come under threat during England's four test tour of South Africa starting in December, a series where two of the world's best all-rounders, the visitors' Andrew Flintoff and the hosts' Jacques Kallis, will be in opposition.
"Both teams are pretty similar man-for-man. I think their tour at the end of the year is going to be a helluva of an exciting tour to watch.
"Freddie (Flintoff) has been performing well and Jacques has been awesome over the last year.
"They are the in-form guys at the moment but in a couple of months' time it could be other guys who are standing up to be counted in both teams."
Posted on 06 September 2004 - 23:02
South African cricket captain Graeme Smith said his side have the opportunity to become heroes during the Champions Trophy one-day tournaments which start in England later this week.
The Proteas come into the 'mini World Cup' on the back of a 5-0 one-day whitewashing in Sri Lanka.
However, Smith, still one of the youngest captains in world cricket at the age of 23, insisted that far from being downcast South Africa would use the Sri Lankan series to inspire them to greater efforts in England.
"We had a really rusty tour in Sri Lanka," Smith told AFP at the squad's hotel on Monday ahead of their opening Champions match on Sunday against minnows Bangladesh at Edgbaston.
"We didn't perform to the standards we would have liked. We come here a team with a lot of pride hurt.
"The team is obviousy highly motivated because of the way we performed and we come here being big underdogs," added Smith whose side face West Indies in the second match of the tournament at The Oval on September 18.
"Hopefully that can play into our hands and hopefully we can get a really dominant performance in up front against Bangladesh and move on to The Oval against West Indies and do well.
"It's a tournament where if you won four games you are heroes again," left-handed Western Province batsman Smith added.
"It's a knock-out tournament and it will be interesting to see how far we've come since the World Cup."
South Africa staged last year's World Cup and were strongly fancied to do well.
However, their tournament ended in embarrassing fashion when a failure to correctly interpret rain-delay regulations led them to believe they'd beaten Sri Lanka when in fact they had only tied.
The result meant South Africa exited the tournament at the end of the first group stage and sparked a chain of events that saw Smith, omitted from the World Cup squad, replace Shaun Pollock as captain.
However the two men have worked well together since then and Smith stressed that the experienced pace bowler's ability to move the ball late would be vital to the team's chances of success.
"Obviously swing bowlers are crucial. Shaun Pollock will be crucial for us up front. He's been a world-class performer for a number of years.
"And your top four in your batting department are going to have produced the goods up front. Maybe the first 15 overs won't be as dominant as in the past. You can score a lot of runs at the death."
Last year also saw South Africa tour England and it was in the test series where Smith really made his name by scoring back-to-back double hundreds in the first two games of the campaign at Edgbaston and Lord's.
Those performances came after South Africa had lost the preceding one-day series final, against England.
However, despite their bad start the hosts fought back and drew the series 2-2, a result that was the spark for a run of form that has seen England win their last seven tests.
However, many expect that run will come under threat during England's four test tour of South Africa starting in December, a series where two of the world's best all-rounders, the visitors' Andrew Flintoff and the hosts' Jacques Kallis, will be in opposition.
"Both teams are pretty similar man-for-man. I think their tour at the end of the year is going to be a helluva of an exciting tour to watch.
"Freddie (Flintoff) has been performing well and Jacques has been awesome over the last year.
"They are the in-form guys at the moment but in a couple of months' time it could be other guys who are standing up to be counted in both teams."
tooextracool
International Coach
and i never said that he wasnt talented, but there are some who have put him in their rest of world XI against australia, something that i'll never really understand.Sudeep said:
tooextracool
International Coach
personally i thought hall deserved many more chances.....Prince EWS said:
Legglancer
State Regular
South Africa are on track - Simons by Altus Momberg
Posted on 07 September 2004 - 01:27
His team may have lost 10 consecutive one-day internationals, but SA cricket coach Eric Simons believes the national cricket side is on the right track.
After the team's arrival in the UK for the International Cricket Council's trophy series, Simons spoke about the frustrations of the Sri Lankan tour and explained that his team's self-confidence took a severe knock after each defeat.
The Proteas lost the second test in Colombo after a draw in the first, and lost all five one-day internationals.
They play Pakistan in a warm-up match in Birmingham on Thursday, before tackling Bangladesh in the first match of the trophy series on Sunday.
Simons said: "I've had a lot of time the past week to think about the Sri Lankan tour. Captain Graeme Smith, Vincent Barnes (assistant coach) and I discussed the situation and we have come up with a few ideas we are going to implement.
"There are a few tactical aspects we are going to change, especially to utilise the conditions in England to our advantage."
South Africa's seamers will be more at ease in the English bowling conditions, but towards the end of the Sri Lanka tour, the bowlers weren't the only problem.
"The batting order struggled and only Jacques Kallis and to a lesser degree Graeme Smith showed any form. And the less said about the standard of fielding, the better.
Where the rest of the world spoke in awe about the fielding of the Proteas a while ago, they now make mistakes that will shame even under-19 players.
However, Simons believes that if his players can regain their self-confidence, a lot will change.
"Obviously we're not where I thought we would be at this stage, but I believe we are moving in the right direction. I've discussed the entire situation with a couple of people whose cricket knowledge I trust and I came to the conclusion that we were on the right track in Sri Lanka," Simons said.
Posted on 07 September 2004 - 01:27
His team may have lost 10 consecutive one-day internationals, but SA cricket coach Eric Simons believes the national cricket side is on the right track.
After the team's arrival in the UK for the International Cricket Council's trophy series, Simons spoke about the frustrations of the Sri Lankan tour and explained that his team's self-confidence took a severe knock after each defeat.
The Proteas lost the second test in Colombo after a draw in the first, and lost all five one-day internationals.
They play Pakistan in a warm-up match in Birmingham on Thursday, before tackling Bangladesh in the first match of the trophy series on Sunday.
Simons said: "I've had a lot of time the past week to think about the Sri Lankan tour. Captain Graeme Smith, Vincent Barnes (assistant coach) and I discussed the situation and we have come up with a few ideas we are going to implement.
"There are a few tactical aspects we are going to change, especially to utilise the conditions in England to our advantage."
South Africa's seamers will be more at ease in the English bowling conditions, but towards the end of the Sri Lanka tour, the bowlers weren't the only problem.
"The batting order struggled and only Jacques Kallis and to a lesser degree Graeme Smith showed any form. And the less said about the standard of fielding, the better.
Where the rest of the world spoke in awe about the fielding of the Proteas a while ago, they now make mistakes that will shame even under-19 players.
However, Simons believes that if his players can regain their self-confidence, a lot will change.
"Obviously we're not where I thought we would be at this stage, but I believe we are moving in the right direction. I've discussed the entire situation with a couple of people whose cricket knowledge I trust and I came to the conclusion that we were on the right track in Sri Lanka," Simons said.