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Thread: Ganguly's achievements

  1. #31
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyCrazy
    It was hilarious when you said Strauss and Bell are better than Ganguly. How many matches have played combined? 5? Now I am going to claim Irfan Pathan is better than Lee, Gillespie and mcgrath. This is the first time you said something really dumb.

    Difference being Swervy was comparing up and coming players with a player who is far from the best at what he does.

    You're comparing an up and coming player with the best in the world.
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  2. #32
    Banned ReallyCrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    You said "Ganguly's test record is much better than the record of so called good test batters both in the current era and the past."

    I quite conclusively proved it is not.
    if you read my post again, you just might realize that I proved conclusively he's better batter than trescothick, vaughan, hussain, thorpe, butcher and chanderpaul and taylor...who are all considered good test batters by quite a few.

    chanderpaul, vaughan and thorpe are probably better test batters than ganguly but not by much. But they are very much below him in ODIs. So overall, Ganguly is better.
    Last edited by ReallyCrazy; 21-08-2004 at 08:13 AM.

  3. #33
    Banned ReallyCrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Difference being Swervy was comparing up and coming players with a player who is far from the best at what he does.

    You're comparing an up and coming player with the best in the world.
    comparing a player who has played 1 test match so far (1 inning i should say) and another player who has played 5 so far to a proven international batter who's been doing it for 8 years now is not just silly. Its also a disgrace.

    Just like Swervy sees talent in bell, i see talent in pathan and I can say he's better than McGrath.

  4. #34
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyCrazy
    if you read my post again, you just might realize that I proved conclusively he's better batter than trescothick, vaughan, hussain, thorpe, butcher and chanderpaul and taylor...who are all considered good test batters by quite a few.

    chanderpaul, vaughan and thorpe are probably better test batters than ganguly but not by much. But they are very much below him in ODIs. So overall, Ganguly is better.

    Right, so in one part of your post you say you've proved conclusively that Ganguly is a better batter than chanderpaul, vaughan and thorpe then you say in the second part OF THE SAME POST that chanderpaul, vaughan and thorpe are proboably better than Ganguly?

    If you read what I actually put, I have proved conclusively that the records of all those batsmen I listed are better than the record of Ganguly in Tests, which is what you initially claimed, and that is a simple matter of numbers, rather than opinion, so it can be conclusive.


  5. #35
    Banned ReallyCrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Right, so in one part of your post you say you've proved conclusively that Ganguly is a better batter than chanderpaul, vaughan and thorpe then you say in the second part OF THE SAME POST that chanderpaul, vaughan and thorpe are proboably better than Ganguly?

    If you read what I actually put, I have proved conclusively that the records of all those batsmen I listed are better than the record of Ganguly in Tests, which is what you initially claimed, and that is a simple matter of numbers, rather than opinion, so it can be conclusive.
    Yes I still say the same. In the first paragraph, I stated that Ganguly is an OVERALL better batter (taking both tests and ODIs into consideration) than Vaughan, Chanderpaul and thorpe. And in the second part, I admit that probably those 3 are very slightly better in tests.

    So I hope you understand I am not only talking about tests. I am talking both tests and ODIs. Ganguly's record in tests is only slightly below those 3. But he wins hands down in ODIs.

    BTW when trying to name players with a better record than Ganguly, try to name players who are really better...not players who average 0.1 runs more per innings.
    Last edited by ReallyCrazy; 21-08-2004 at 10:21 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Right, so in one part of your post you say you've proved conclusively that Ganguly is a better batter than chanderpaul, vaughan and thorpe then you say in the second part OF THE SAME POST that chanderpaul, vaughan and thorpe are proboably better than Ganguly?

    If you read what I actually put, I have proved conclusively that the records of all those batsmen I listed are better than the record of Ganguly in Tests, which is what you initially claimed, and that is a simple matter of numbers, rather than opinion, so it can be conclusive.
    ill bet if sourav ganguly played for england and someone was attacking him youd have a very different answer?
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  7. #37
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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  8. #38
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hit4Six
    ill bet if sourav ganguly played for england and someone was attacking him youd have a very different answer?
    its not attacking him (remember it wasnt one of the 'anti-ganguly' peopele who started this thread..whoever did start this surely must have known this kind of response would come out from some of us)...its pointing out that he isnt the be all and end all.

    I have pointed out some of the things in his captaincy and batting which I dont rate highly..some of us on here arent just going to accept that he is the best or the greatest when it is blatantly obvious he isnt..would much rather dish out the praise on the truly great players in the Indian team ie.Tendulkar and Dravid
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  9. #39
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyCrazy
    So I hope you understand I am not only talking about tests.
    Oh yes, you made that quite evident by saying:

    Ganguly's test record is much better than the record of so called good test batters both in the current era and the past.
    That clearly shows that you meant ODI's



    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyCrazy
    BTW when trying to name players with a better record than Ganguly, try to name players who are really better...not players who average 0.1 runs more per innings.
    Most of the players I named have far better records than Ganguly (a fact you claimed in the above quoted post)

  10. #40
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    Sourav is definitely an all time great ODI player and definitely is an all time great captain, atleast in Indian cricket. I still think he has done enough to be mentioned amongst some very good captains who have captained sides in the history of the game. And I think he is a pretty good test match player. He has his weaknesses, he has his strengths and at the end of the day, he is a guy who can average in excess of 40 in test cricket, hallmark of a good player. Plus he is a useful seamer at times. '

    The problem here seems to be that most people tend to either over rate or under rate Sourav. They either think he is great (which he is not) or they think he is poor (which he is not either).
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  11. #41
    International Captain Deja moo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178


    Most of the players I named have far better records than Ganguly (a fact you claimed in the above quoted post)

    Marc , you got to choose your set of good players(which was off the mark really , cause I dont think he was comparing Ganguly with the likes of Sachin , Ponting etc.in the first place) and he got to choose his set of good players ( and made a very valid point . He did mention good players who are rated widely as "better" than Ganguly .And he rightly questioned that view)
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  12. #42
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja moo
    Marc , you got to choose your set of good players(which was off the mark really , cause I dont think he was comparing Ganguly with the likes of Sachin , Ponting etc.in the first place) and he got to choose his set of good players ( and made a very valid point . He did mention good players who are rated widely as "better" than Ganguly .And he rightly questioned that view)

    No, he said quite specifically Ganguly's record is better - I showed quite clearly it is not!

  13. #43
    Banned ReallyCrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    No, he said quite specifically Ganguly's record is better - I showed quite clearly it is not!
    no you didn't clearly show it is not. You named a lot of guys from England who averaged maybe 1 run more than Ganguly (and regarded as good test players)...thats far from clear. And yes, you did name Sachin, Lara and Ponting as well but I never claimed Ganguly was as good as them.

  14. #44
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyCrazy
    no you didn't clearly show it is not. You named a lot of guys from England who averaged maybe 1 run more than Ganguly (and regarded as good test players)...thats far from clear. And yes, you did name Sachin, Lara and Ponting as well but I never claimed Ganguly was as good as them.
    So tell me ..why do you not think Thorpe or Vaughan etc are better batsmen than Ganguly...and lets talk about in tests..the true indicator of a players talent

  15. #45
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Ganguly's career PwC Rankings:

    20/06/1996 47 England Lord's
    04/07/1996 41 England Nottingham
    10/10/1996 31 Australia Delhi
    27/11/1996 41 South Africa Kolkata
    08/12/1996 34 South Africa Kanpur
    26/12/1996 41 South Africa Durban
    02/01/1997 42 South Africa Cape Town
    16/01/1997 33 South Africa Johannesburg
    06/03/1997 32 West Indies Kingston
    14/03/1997 36 West Indies Port-of-Spain
    27/03/1997 36 West Indies Bridgetown
    04/04/1997 36 West Indies St John's
    02/08/1997 42 Sri Lanka Colombo (RPS)
    13/08/1997 34 Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC)
    19/11/1997 28 Sri Lanka Mohali
    26/11/1997 16 Sri Lanka Nagpur
    03/12/1997 13 Sri Lanka Mumbai
    06/03/1998 11 Australia Chennai
    18/03/1998 11 Australia Kolkata
    25/03/1998 16 Australia Bangalore
    07/10/1998 11 Zimbabwe Harare
    26/12/1998 16 New Zealand Wellington
    02/01/1999 11 New Zealand Hamilton
    28/01/1999 10 Pakistan Chennai
    04/02/1999 9 Pakistan Delhi
    16/02/1999 10 Pakistan Kolkata
    24/02/1999 10 Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC)

    10/10/1999 11 New Zealand Mohali
    22/10/1999 15 New Zealand Kanpur
    29/10/1999 11 New Zealand Ahmedabad
    10/12/1999 8 Australia Adelaide
    26/12/1999 12 Australia Melbourne
    02/01/2000 14 Australia Sydney
    24/02/2000 16 South Africa Mumbai
    02/03/2000 21 South Africa Bangalore
    10/11/2000 23 Bangladesh Dhaka
    18/11/2000 22 Zimbabwe Delhi
    25/11/2000 26 Zimbabwe Nagpur
    27/02/2001 27 Australia Mumbai
    11/03/2001 28 Australia Kolkata
    18/03/2001 31 Australia Chennai
    07/06/2001 36 Zimbabwe Bulawayo
    15/06/2001 38 Zimbabwe Harare
    14/08/2001 46 Sri Lanka Galle
    22/08/2001 39 Sri Lanka Kandy
    30/08/2001 41 Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC)
    03/11/2001 42 South Africa Bloemfontein
    16/11/2001 39 South Africa Port Elizabeth
    03/12/2001 40 England Mohali
    11/12/2001 41 England Ahmedabad
    19/12/2001 46 England Bangalore
    21/02/2002 46 Zimbabwe Nagpur
    28/02/2002 39 Zimbabwe Delhi
    11/04/2002 40 West Indies Georgetown
    19/04/2002 38 West Indies Port-of-Spain
    02/05/2002 36 West Indies Bridgetown
    10/05/2002 36 West Indies St John's
    18/05/2002 37 West Indies Kingston
    25/07/2002 40 England Lord's
    08/08/2002 39 England Nottingham
    22/08/2002 32 England Leeds
    05/09/2002 31 England The Oval
    09/10/2002 34 West Indies Mumbai
    17/10/2002 36 West Indies Chennai
    30/10/2002 38 West Indies Kolkata
    12/12/2002 38 New Zealand Wellington
    19/12/2002 39 New Zealand Hamilton
    08/10/2003 37 New Zealand Ahmedabad
    04/12/2003 33 Australia Brisbane
    12/12/2003 33 Australia Adelaide
    26/12/2003 34 Australia Melbourne
    02/01/2004 35 Australia Sydney
    13/04/2004 35 Pakistan Rawalpindi

    He's only been in the top ten five times, and most of the time he's hovered around the edge of the top 30 (mean 29.82, mode 36, median 34)

    Let's compare this to Thorpe:

    He's been in the top ten 31 times, and his average position looks just inside the top twenty (mean 19.68, mode 9, median 17).

    01/07/1993 45 Australia Nottingham
    22/07/1993 74 Australia Leeds
    05/08/1993 50 Australia Birmingham
    19/02/1994 59 West Indies Kingston
    17/03/1994 61 West Indies Georgetown
    25/03/1994 50 West Indies Port-of-Spain
    08/04/1994 41 West Indies Bridgetown
    16/04/1994 44 West Indies St John's
    04/08/1994 37 South Africa Leeds
    18/08/1994 23 South Africa The Oval
    25/11/1994 22 Australia Brisbane
    24/12/1994 21 Australia Melbourne
    01/01/1995 20 Australia Sydney
    26/01/1995 10 Australia Adelaide
    03/02/1995 7 Australia Perth
    08/06/1995 7 West Indies Leeds
    22/06/1995 6 West Indies Lord's
    06/07/1995 6 West Indies Birmingham
    27/07/1995 5 West Indies Manchester
    10/08/1995 4 West Indies Nottingham
    24/08/1995 4 West Indies The Oval
    16/11/1995 4 South Africa Centurion
    30/11/1995 7 South Africa Johannesburg
    15/12/1995 10 South Africa Durban

    26/12/1995 11 South Africa Port Elizabeth
    04/01/1996 8 South Africa Cape Town
    06/06/1996 9 India Birmingham
    20/06/1996 8 India Lord's
    04/07/1996 9 India Nottingham
    25/07/1996 9 Pakistan Lord's
    08/08/1996 9 Pakistan Leeds

    22/08/1996 11 Pakistan The Oval
    18/12/1996 17 Zimbabwe Bulawayo
    26/12/1996 16 Zimbabwe Harare
    24/01/1997 12 New Zealand Auckland
    06/02/1997 8 New Zealand Wellington
    13/02/1997 12 New Zealand Christchurch
    05/06/1997 5 Australia Birmingham
    19/06/1997 4 Australia Lord's
    03/07/1997 9 Australia Manchester

    25/07/1997 12 Australia Leeds
    07/08/1997 4 Australia Nottingham
    21/08/1997 4 Australia The Oval
    29/01/1998 3 West Indies Kingston
    05/02/1998 4 West Indies Port-of-Spain
    13/02/1998 6 West Indies Port-of-Spain
    27/02/1998 9 West Indies Georgetown
    12/03/1998 6 West Indies Bridgetown
    20/03/1998 6 West Indies St John's
    04/06/1998 4 South Africa Birmingham
    18/06/1998 7 South Africa Lord's

    02/07/1998 16 South Africa Manchester
    20/11/1998 19 Australia Brisbane
    01/07/1999 23 New Zealand Birmingham
    22/07/1999 26 New Zealand Lord's
    05/08/1999 28 New Zealand Manchester
    19/08/1999 26 New Zealand The Oval
    07/08/2000 37 West Indies Manchester
    17/08/2000 35 West Indies Leeds
    31/08/2000 35 West Indies The Oval
    15/11/2000 33 Pakistan Lahore
    29/11/2000 32 Pakistan Faisalabad
    07/12/2000 31 Pakistan Karachi
    26/02/2001 30 Sri Lanka Galle
    07/03/2001 30 Sri Lanka Kandy
    15/03/2001 17 Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC)
    17/05/2001 10 Pakistan Lord's
    31/05/2001 9 Pakistan Manchester
    19/07/2001 10 Australia Lord's

    03/12/2001 18 India Mohali
    13/03/2002 15 New Zealand Christchurch
    21/03/2002 17 New Zealand Wellington
    30/03/2002 19 New Zealand Auckland
    16/05/2002 22 Sri Lanka Lord's
    30/05/2002 14 Sri Lanka Birmingham
    13/06/2002 15 Sri Lanka Manchester
    25/07/2002 20 India Lord's
    08/09/2003 28 South Africa The Oval
    21/10/2003 24 Bangladesh Dhaka
    29/10/2003 28 Bangladesh Chittagong
    02/12/2003 27 Sri Lanka Galle
    10/12/2003 26 Sri Lanka Kandy
    18/12/2003 29 Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC)
    11/03/2004 29 West Indies Kingston
    19/03/2004 22 West Indies Port-of-Spain
    01/04/2004 18 West Indies Bridgetown
    10/04/2004 18 West Indies St John's
    24/05/2004 17 New Zealand Lord's
    03/06/2004 18 New Zealand Leeds
    10/06/2004 17 New Zealand Nottingham
    22/07/2004 20 West Indies Lord's
    01/08/2004 19 West Indies Birmingham
    12/08/2004 16 West Indies Manchester

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