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Best New Zealand line-up?

Craig

World Traveller
We have had a heaps of various different XIs lately, so I ask what should New Zealand's best line-up in Tests and ODIs?

Tests:

MH Richardson
MWH Papps
*SP Fleming
SB Styris
NJ Astle
JEC Franklin
+BB McCullum
JPD Oram
DL Vettori
DR Tuffey
CS Martin

I was really struggling to find another fast bowler, so the best that came up in my mind was Martin. I think Papps deserves an extended run in the Test team after scoring runs for the last couple of years in domestic cricket and shows some promise. Having Franklin in there I guess gives my side some more balance, and don't want McMillan in there, and I don't think Sinclair is the answer either. Maybe Peter Fulton, but I don't know if his time is ready yet.

I will do ODIs later.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
While I think Franklin is more likely to score runs than McMillan at the moment..I don't think you could justify him batting ahead of McCullum or Oram.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Richardson
Papps
Fleming
Styris
Astle (even if we drop McMillan, there's still a slap-happy look to this middle-order that I don't particularly like. Don't rule out Braces giving Marshall a chance at some stage.)
McCullum
Oram
Vettori
Franklin
Butler (picking Bond now seems sort of like picking Hadlee, despite the fact he's a 53 year-old man.)
Martin (Bracewell has suggested that if Tuffey can't bowl without a scrambled seam, he's below Martin in the pecking order.)

When you look at this attack for a 'best line-up', it's amazing so many Kiwis are furious that a) we're now #6 in the world and b) Bracewell is completely to blame.

Bracewell's right really - we can't just play for draws and pick up a few home wins. Even it gave us a more flattering ranking, we'd only be kidding ourselves in terms of developing a better cricket side.
 
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cbuts

International Debutant
mcmillan is the carlos of cricket. people are jealous of his talent they dont see how good his record is. not many nz players cna boast acareer average, over s many tests as he has played, of over 40. last year he scored over 600 runs at over an average of 68.9 some people have short memories when it comes to mcmillian. if i was to drop anyone it would be astle, what did he do recently? and really is there any need to drop a batter? it wasnt them who let us down in england.
butler should deffinalty be int he test lineup. how anyone could justify martin being in ther ei dont know.

flemming
richardson
astle
styris
maca
oram
mcullum
franklin
b martin
tuffey
butler

we are actually ranked 7th not 6th. tell me, someone please, whe does dan vettori deserve a place in the team? this is test circket u cant afford to carry players
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
oh for god sakes, we've got another McMillan trumpeter.

The majority of those 600 runs came in India! where as you know alot of batsmen score runs.

Sure he averages 40..but check who the runs have been made against! Weak bowling attacks.
Of course everyone has short memories of McMillan..they want to forget his last series as quickly as possible & move on!.
 

Craig

World Traveller
However, what would our best ODI line up look like?

If Ross Taylor can continue on his fine start, then a Black Cap v Australia would almost be a formality.
 

Mr. P

International Vice-Captain
Tuffey has to play ahead of Martin. Franklins inclusion is smart however he must bat below Oram. And probably McCullum. I reckon McCullum is overrated with the bat.

Also how TDCC young guns has left out vettori i don't know. Finally IMO Marshall ahead of Papps.
 

Piper

International Captain
MH Richardson
MWH Papps
*SP Fleming
SB Styris
NJ Astle
JEC Franklin
+BB McCullum
JPD Oram
DL Vettori
S Bond
CS Martin
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
BATSMEN:
Richardson (Tests only, opening)
Fleming (Captain, opening?)
Papps/Jones (opening, mostly a reserve)
Marshall (ODI's only, opening)
McMillan
Astle

BATTING ALL-ROUNDERS:
Styris
Oram (His hard hitting batting will be more effective than his bowling)

WICKETKEEPERS:
McCullum/Vincent
Hopkins

BOWLING ALL-ROUNDERS:
Andre Adams
Cairns (ODI's only)
Harris

BOWLERS:
Butler
Mason (Tests only)
Vettori
Wiseman (reserve)
Franklin
Bond (if fit)
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
1) Richardson
2) Fleming
3) Sinclair
4) Styris
5) Astle
6) McCullum
7) Oram
8) Vettori/B.Martin
9) Tuffey
10) Bond
11) C.Martin/Franklin

With Fleming opening our problems are at number 3, and I don't see Astle or MacMillan batting there at all, plus I think Astle and MacMillian shouldn't bat one after the other in the line up. Styris has played well at #4, but I feel we need another out and out batsman...and that is why Sinclair is there. Papps is a good player but I don't think he is quite there yet.

I guess Bond won't be making the team anytime soon, so perhaps Franklin gets the start.
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
Oh I forgot about Butler, he should be in there somewhere, maybe 12th man.

Surely McMillan is close to a certainty in ODIs?
Yup he is, whether or not he should be is another question.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Tim said:
oh for god sakes, we've got another McMillan trumpeter.

The majority of those 600 runs came in India! where as you know alot of batsmen score runs.

Sure he averages 40..but check who the runs have been made against! Weak bowling attacks.
Of course everyone has short memories of McMillan..they want to forget his last series as quickly as possible & move on!.
Although TDCC might be all 'but what about Astle?', McMillan's test record outside India and NZ really is the clincher for me. People who keep up this vigil for Macca are completely underestimating the talent waiting underneath him these days.

When you take away the friendly-paced attacks and the flat, slow pitches, it's pretty obvious that McMillan isn't a one-in-a-million talent that NZ needs to cherish. If he is in fact a flawed genius, I'd like to know how provincial battlers like Styris and Marshall were able to come in and do an even better job. Some fans might be happy if McMillan belts Bangladesh and Zimbabwe until his record almost looks world-class again, but personally I think we're selling ourselves short.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
There's no doubt McMillan has talent..he's probably one of the most talented players we've ever had. But he's never shown it consistently enough.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Infact it's interesting that just before the Indian series last year, McMillan's average had dropped from just below 44 to around 39. His average is constantly on the decrease but then he makes up for it with big innings against weak attacks.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Arjun said:
Mason (Tests only)
Why? He didn't se the world alight on his Test debut that ruined any chance he had of going to England, and showed more control v South Africa.

Arjun said:
Wiseman (reserve)
The guy isn't of Test standard. Would add Bruce Martin in there.
 

Andre

International Regular
Richardson
Papps
Fleming (c)
Styris
Astle
McCullum
Oram
Vettori
Adams
Franklin
Butler

12th man: Hamish Marshall.

I've picked a fair inexperianced attack, granted, but I personally think the lack of penetration offered by bowlers like Tuffey and Martin is a major part of New Zealands downfall. I believe that Andre Adams must surely get another look in sooner or later, if management showed faith in him I am certain he would be a success as his talent is very rare and hence must be used in New Zealand. With Bond more or less finished, Butler offers the best option of a strike weapon with the ball and deserves a chance to stake his claim. McMillan misses out - I'm with the band on this one, he just doesn't perform as he should and does not deserve the run that he gets in the side. Perhaps a dumping would increase his hunger. Franklin bats at 10 for mine and is the ideal first change bowler. Vettori plays due to lack of superior options.
 

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