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Thread: Robert Key to replace Butcher?

  1. #16
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    Just one series where he hardly got an opportunity. On form, he would be a good pick.
    On form? Despite the fact he's averaging about 14 in the National League this season?
    Form and team orders may change that.
    It doesn't matter what team orders there are, if you haven't got the ability, you can't do it no matter who tells you to!
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  2. #17
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    It doesn't matter what team orders there are, if you haven't got the ability, you can't do it no matter who tells you to!
    It's a question of mind over matter. If he shows application, the way Harmison did with fielding, he can improve.

    On form? Despite the fact he's averaging about 14 in the National League this season?
    He also has a double century behind him, so he's in better form than his National League average would suggest. If he carries on this form, he can be effective even in ODI's.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    It doesn't matter what team orders there are, if you haven't got the ability, you can't do it no matter who tells you to!
    In most cases I would agree, but we are talking about single hitting, not whether he can make the squad. If he can make the England side, he should be able to hit the singles on instruction.

    If he can't follow those orders, he shouldn't be at the top level of the game.

  4. #19
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    It's a question of mind over matter. If he shows application, the way Harmison did with fielding, he can improve.
    Harmison's still a terrible fielder, he's just not quite as terrible as he was a couple of years ago.
    If you've got the ability, you can improve. If you haven't, you can't.
    He also has a double century behind him, so he's in better form than his National League average would suggest. If he carries on this form, he can be effective even in ODI's.
    He's been scoring heavily in the First-Class game all season. This double-century, in the First-Class game, doesn't show anything we didn't already know.
    In the one-day game, however, his form has been terrible all season.


  5. #20
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. P
    In most cases I would agree, but we are talking about single hitting, not whether he can make the squad. If he can make the England side, he should be able to hit the singles on instruction.

    If he can't follow those orders, he shouldn't be at the top level of the game.
    Really, you shouldn't need to be instructed to attempt to score singles when there are gaps in the field. Any decent connasseur of the one-day game knows that.
    And personally I don't think he should make the England-one-day-side, because he can't score the singles when they're needed.

  6. #21
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    He's been scoring heavily in the First-Class game all season. This double-century, in the First-Class game, doesn't show anything we didn't already know.

    I disagree, it showed to me he has got what it takes to score runs in Test Cricket, rather than just at domestic level.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Really, you shouldn't need to be instructed to attempt to score singles when there are gaps in the field. Any decent connasseur of the one-day game knows that.
    And personally I don't think he should make the England-one-day-side, because he can't score the singles when they're needed.
    I actually never said he should be in the side. However I think with some of batsmen there might be a need to be taught or told to hit the singles. If he is at that standard he should eventually do it easy...

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    I disagree, it showed to me he has got what it takes to score runs in Test Cricket, rather than just at domestic level.
    Is that just the trivial point that it was a Test match and he got runs in it, or does your statement have some wider implication?

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  9. #24
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    It was meant to have wider implication, I think it says something about his mental strength that runs in County Cricket don't say.

  10. #25
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    Just one series where he hardly got an opportunity..
    he got a couple of chances in the natwest 2003 and failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    On form, he would be a good pick...
    and what do you think he was in now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    He hit more than 20 (how many) fours. He does not hit too many sixes, but in form, he should do so.
    so averaging nearly 100 in domestic cricket this season and hes still not in form is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    That odd six or four can change a match, but he should not try to be an Adam Gilchrist..
    what are you talking about?how can the odd 6 or 4 change a test match? rubbish
    even in an ODI match taking singles is more important than hitting sixes, except perhaps in the slog over....
    Form and team orders may change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    At least 11 Australian Test players may not agree fully.
    yes because they all hit 4s and 6s that win test matches.....
    Last edited by tooextracool; 29-07-2004 at 05:35 AM.
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  11. #26
    Cricket Spectator greencarrot2's Avatar
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    his national league average?? its 84.09, the highest domestic average in england
    Last edited by greencarrot2; 29-07-2004 at 05:29 AM. Reason: the table went wrong
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  12. #27
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    No, no, that's his Championship average. The Championship is First-Class-cricket.
    In the one-day National League his average is 14.something. Disappointing, by recent season's standards.

  13. #28
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. P
    I actually never said he should be in the side. However I think with some of batsmen there might be a need to be taught or told to hit the singles. If he is at that standard he should eventually do it easy...
    No, no, I never meant you did.
    And I thoroughly agree that some (make that all) batsmen who are playing in a one-day-international side need to be able to score singles, plenty of them.
    But it's not just a case of being told - it is a case of being taught, learning.
    And the best place for that is in the nets, not in the middle. Make that the only place.

  14. #29
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    It was meant to have wider implication, I think it says something about his mental strength that runs in County Cricket don't say.
    I never thought it was that likely he lacked mental strength.
    His previous failures in Test-cricket say far more about the stupidity of picking openers to bat at five than any lack of mental strength.
    And his three failures in summer 2002 as an opener said something about luck (a ball rebounding onto the stumps off the body), a slight flaw in technique (the bottom-handed jab) and the fallibility that most batsmen who have ever faced Anil Kumble have ever shown (going back and being trapped lbw by the skidding ball).

  15. #30
    International Coach wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    I never thought it was that likely he lacked mental strength.
    His previous failures in Test-cricket say far more about the stupidity of picking openers to bat at five than any lack of mental strength.
    And his three failures in summer 2002 as an opener said something about luck (a ball rebounding onto the stumps off the body), a slight flaw in technique (the bottom-handed jab) and the fallibility that most batsmen who have ever faced Anil Kumble have ever shown (going back and being trapped lbw by the skidding ball).
    What we've seen today isn't inspiring, as he could easily have gone the way he eventually did a couple of times before he successfully edged one to Lara. Which was also true at Lord's, although there he did capitalise on his luck superbly. Not that Butcher never flirts outside off stump, of course, but that's another matter.

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