Simon Jones - International Failure?

[Richard]

Good joke but shocking situation. Haven't liked Brett Lee since that day and it is unlikely I ever will, even if he gifts England the Ashes in 2005.

There wasn't too much wrong with bowling a Bouncer at someone with a Test 99* to his name and two First-Class centuries.
What was shameful was causing that injury to someone who can bat a bit one ball and bowling an equally vicious ball at someone who can't bat for s**t the next!
It was heartening to hear the boos from all around the ground after that ball.
And then have the nerve to follow the match by using an inverse of the famous Thomson "blood on the pitch" quote.

 

[Richard]

it would take so much of a look at clarke in those ODIs to realise he wasnt good enough with bat or ball to be selected in the test side.

Same way it would take so much of a look at Vaughan in ODIs to realise he's a Test-batsman of the highest class?

 

[marc71178]

If ODI's were played with a Red Ball, I wonder what Vaughan would average?

 

[Richard]

Probably about the same, though it is interesting that both his one-day centuries have come in red-ball competitions.
It's not as if he's never played well in the National League, he's just never made a century (hardly played in the last 4 seasons).
Either way, ODIs and most domestic List-A-one-day cricket everywhere is played with white-balls and that is the fact of the matter. I'd be surprised if The C&G isn't unique in it's kind, in fact. Can any of our non-English correspondants bring news of any other List-A-one-day competitions still played with a red-ball?

 

[DJellett]

Sajid Mahmood (Lancs) - Made an uninspiring ODI debut for England this summer. But Dennis Lillee amongst others has tipped for the very top. Quick, tall and accurate. The next McGrath/Harmison?

I cannot believe you would classify McGrath and Harmison in the same class...

 

[marc71178]

Probably about the same, though it is interesting that both his one-day centuries have come in red-ball competitions.

They showed a stat - his Red ball List 'A' average is over 40!

 

[marc71178]

I cannot believe you would classify McGrath and Harmison in the same class...

I know, that's a grave insult to Harmo

 

[Craig]

Probably about the same, though it is interesting that both his one-day centuries have come in red-ball competitions.
It's not as if he's never played well in the National League, he's just never made a century (hardly played in the last 4 seasons).
Either way, ODIs and most domestic List-A-one-day cricket everywhere is played with white-balls and that is the fact of the matter. I'd be surprised if The C&G isn't unique in it's kind, in fact. Can any of our non-English correspondants bring news of any other List-A-one-day competitions still played with a red-ball?

None I know of.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I cannot believe you would classify McGrath and Harmison in the same class...

Believe it or not, they are. The sooner you Aussies get used to it, the better.

 

[gio]

If richard had his way, England would be made up of OAPs! An England team of Mullaly, Ealham and Caddick doesn't exactly excite me. Do you rate any youngsters in the game? Young players need time to develop, I simply outlined some of the players that have the potential to be play for England in the future. Remember when Harmison first came onto the scene? Eyebrows were raised, but he was given time to develop and he's tunred into a true WC quick. The bolwers I mentioned could do something similar, if things go their way.

 

[Craig]

I am not English, so in their results won't affect me unless they play against the Black Caps, but I do ask, should they just rush in young players on 'talent and potential' and risk losing matches?

Besides the English Cap shouldn't be handed about like a piece pipe.

 

[Piper]

I think the young players should be given chances, if they dont get chances they dont improve. And that should be at the risk of losing matches. We cant just stick with the same players til they all retire then we have no team, so yes i do think that young players with talent should be given chances even if it means losing matches.

 

[Richard]

They showed a stat - his Red ball List 'A' average is over 40!

Good Lord! What an remarkable coincidence!
Who showed that? Sky presumably?
Shame from his POV that the last red-ball ODIs were in 1998, then.
And 2-and-a-half years later I was still wondering whether the next 2-team ODI series England played would be played with a red-ball, white clothes and white sightscreens!
Amazing that England's one-day competitions went:
South Africa Texaco Trophy (red-ball)
Emirates Tri-Series (late 1998)
Willis World Cup (autumn 1998)
C&U Series Tri-Series (winter 1998\99)
Three-nation Coca-Cola Cup (spring 1999)
World Cup (early 1999)
Standard Bank Tri-Series (winter 1999\2000)
NatWest Series (2000)
Pakistan ODI series (2000\01)
And I was still wondering if two-way series were played in flannels!
Just goes to show how little international cricket I still watched in those days.

 

[Richard]

Believe it or not, they are. The sooner you Aussies get used to it, the better.

Joke or not, that's not a wise thing to say.
Harmison has a bad next 3 Tests (look at the suggestions for pitch-conditions at Edgbaston and Trent Bridge, and we all know The Oval...) and that comment'll come back to haunt you time and again.
Because we all know what a fantastic bowler McGrath is on wickets that don't move off the seam.

 

[Arjun]

I am not English, so in their results won't affect me unless they play against the Black Caps, but I do ask, should they just rush in young players on 'talent and potential' and risk losing matches?

Most FC stats of English FC players are quite awful. Besides, they don't look capable of swinging matches their team's way, so why not try out some young players with potential, power, performance and match temperament?

 

[Richard]

If richard had his way, England would be made up of OAPs! An England team of Mullaly, Ealham and Caddick doesn't exactly excite me. Do you rate any youngsters in the game? Young players need time to develop, I simply outlined some of the players that have the potential to be play for England in the future. Remember when Harmison first came onto the scene? Eyebrows were raised, but he was given time to develop and he's tunred into a true WC quick. The bolwers I mentioned could do something similar, if things go their way.

Jees, how on Earth is someone going to improve by playing?
Yes, of course bad players need time to develop into good ones, but that time comes in the nets, not on the field!
I outlined why I don't believe some of those players have the potential to play for England, that's all.
And the old "Richard likes OAPs" jibe has been tried, tested and failed. The card is frayed through and through.
And an England team made-up of the bowlers it currently is doesn't exactly "excite" me, either. Ealham and Mullally rarely excited anyone, but they did give those supporting England a substantial amount of satisfaction.

 

[Richard]

Most FC stats of English FC players are quite awful. Besides, they don't look capable of swinging matches their team's way, so why not try out some young players with potential, power, performance and match temperament?

Because, as you mentioned, most players don't have that performance.
A strange comment, Arjun.

 

[Richard]

I think the young players should be given chances, if they dont get chances they dont improve. And that should be at the risk of losing matches. We cant just stick with the same players til they all retire then we have no team, so yes i do think that young players with talent should be given chances even if it means losing matches.

Who's to say someone's got talent? It's purely down to guesswork if the respective player isn't performing at domestic level.
Young players should be given chances if there is a spot available and they're performing at the domestic level. If the team is performing and players are meriting their spots, tough luck! Someone else got there first.
And as I say, it's certainly not getting chances at international level that makes players improve - it's hard work and good coaching. Practice, in other words. At practice sessions.

 

[Arjun]

Because, as you mentioned, most players don't have that performance.
A strange comment, Arjun.

A lot of players, young or old, have disappointing FC stats, and don't play like match-winners when in action. Is there any harm in trying out someone who has average stats with a lot of power and potential, over someone who has played a lot more matches with slightly better stats who'll just make up the numbers?

 

[Swervy]

Jees, how on Earth is someone going to improve by playing?
Yes, of course bad players need time to develop into good ones, but that time comes in the nets, not on the field!

not 100% in agreement with you there...nets do not compare to the learning experience gained by actaully playing the game...as has been said before , much of this game is played in the mind, mental toughness is what makes Player A a success over Player B when both have the same talent and physical atributes...you can only get that through playing competitivly