Simon Jones - International Failure?

[marc71178]

He bowled extremely well with the old ball in one of the Tests (which one escapes me) and finally got some rhythm going.

Lord's, since he was then rested to protect a potentially serious injury.

Coincidentally, it was also Lords where Ashley Giles bowled a superb spell on the 4th day that IMO is just as key to winning the game as anything from the quicks was.

 

[marc71178]

In the Glamorgan side David Harrison has totally outclassed him. There is also Kirtley (who outbowled Harmison the few times they played together), Saggers (who took a wicket with his first Test ball in England, and has been the most consistently excellent county bowler this millenium), Johnson (who has a stunning Test record), Anderson (who has started his ODI career brilliantly and has potential), Mascarenhas (who is in top form at the moment), Martin Bicknell (who is too old now but should have played far more for England and is still much better than Jones), and probably Silverwood aswell.

Johnson - 2 games, I believe (Zimbabwe and Bangladesh)
Saggers - excellent at county level because he knows how to bowl to county batsmen.
Kirtley - outbowled the old Harmison.
Anderson - Has yet to show it in Tests really.
Mascarenhas - in that case I nominate several county bowlers.
Bicknell - did a good job when called upon - I believe injuries prevented him from making Gus Fraser a 2 or 3 Test only player, but still is now past it.
Silverwood?!

 

[gio]

Who on earth mentioned Silverwood, Irani, Tudor, Bulbeck and Cork? Crazy people. Silverwood is not even first pick for Yorkshire, Irani doesn't bowl anymore, Bulbeck has retired (and why he was mentioned in the first place, ICC having some influence?) Tudor has hardly played in the last 2 years and Cork doesn't swing the ball as much or as often, but his charcter is still great!

What other good English quicks are there?

Young quicks?
Tim Bresnan (Yorks)- not fast as such, but accurate and moves the ball. Just 19 and already a vital member of the Yorkshire OD outfit. Can hit the ball a long way. Apparently, though, he has attitude problems (a bit arrogant).
Kyle Hogg (Lancs) - Tipped for the top for a few years now, but is injury prone.
Liam Plunkett (Dur) - had a bit of a quiet season so far but has the potential to become a real class bowler. He's just turned 19 and already has 54 FC wickets @ 27.
David Harrison (Glam) - has had a great season so far for Glamorgan in the championship and troubled England in the warm up ODI
Sajid Mahmood (Lancs) - Made an uninspiring ODI debut for England this summer. But Dennis Lillee amongst others has tipped for the very top. Quick, tall and accurate. The next McGrath/Harmison?
James Anderson (Lancs) - His form is patchy, but he is quick, with the potential to be quicker. He used to swing the ball loads, and often late, but that seems to have lost him for the moment. Still a very bright future for the 22 yr old.
Kabir Ali (Worcs) - Last seasons leading wicket taker in the championship (for a quick). He is only medium pace, but bowls with accuracy and movement. A decent lower order batsman too.

As for the older ones, well there's Johnson, Shreck, and Wharf.

 

[Craig]

1 is consistently injured and has no heart.

To be fair to Tudor, when you are injured it can play on your mind and confidence. Certainly not the worst English selection, and has done a fairly good job v Australia.

 

[tooextracool]

Note that Jones never opens the bowling for Glamorgan even when fully fit.

it would be expected that someone who has never watched him bowl would come up with a comment like that. jones is by no means an opening bowler.....his accuracy isnt quite there and he doesnt handle the new ball very well. those who have seen him bowl for england know that he is at his best bowling with the older ball and that is why he generally comes on as 2nd change.....

 

[tooextracool]

Anyone can take wickets occasionally. Even bowlers like Carl Hooper or Ashley Giles have taken 5-fors in Test cricket. Anyway every England bowler in that series took plenty of wickets largely down to pathetic batting and poor pitches. One good performance in almost a dozen matches is not something to be proud of. For the most part Jones has bowled an inconsistent line and length, while not looking like taking wickets. Do you really think he would average 38 in the championship or 130 in the NCL if he was actually a threat?

i dont really know what you dont understand by the term "match fit"......those who watched him bowl against NZ at lords would find it hard to say that he doesnt look like taking wickets, quite simply he has something in his arsenal that no one else in the side at the moment has to offer-the ability to reverse swing the old ball.
id also like to point out to you that simon jones has only played 7 matches before this(6 if you discount the 1 in australia), so where you come up with 'almost a dozen matches' i'll never know. he did well against india on his debut and although he didnt do all that well in the series in the carribean he was undoubtedly the pick of the bowlers at lords. to judge his performance from 1 inning on a very flat wicket when he isnt match fit would be ludicrous.

 

[badgerhair]

To be fair to Tudor, when you are injured it can play on your mind and confidence. Certainly not the worst English selection, and has done a fairly good job v Australia.

He wasn't the worst-ever English selection when he was picked, but he would be now. (Well, possibly not worst-*ever*, but you get the drift.)

Marc's "no mind, no heart" was what we discovered when we picked him - and these are things which cannot be discovered *unless* you pick someone. He didn't in fact do a good job against Australia on any regular basis - he did it once, and Australian fans keep on about it the way they kept on about Tufnell's awful fielding on his first tour of Aus, even though his fielding on his second tour in 94-95 was pretty good by any standards.

I've got no criticism of his being picked, because he showed potential and could have turned out to be a good Test player, and I've got no criticism of him now being ignored because he didn't realise the one and didn't turn out to be the other, and he had adequate opportunity to do both.

It seems to me that the England selectors are generally doing a good job with regard to picking bowlers, giving them a chance, and proceeding on the basis of the results.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[marc71178]

To be fair to Tudor, when you are injured it can play on your mind and confidence.

Yes, but what about when he's fully fit and ducks out of challenges?

 

[marc71178]

It seems to me that the England selectors are generally doing a good job with regard to picking bowlers, giving them a chance, and proceeding on the basis of the results.

It seems to me they're also doing a very good job in picking the batsmen as well - can it be just coincidence that Strauss came in and got a ton and a 90, then Key comes in and gets a double?

Trescothick must be feeling the pressure, so watch him get a ton today!

Then it's a hard call, but Butcher really has no way back in!

 

[Tom Halsey]

Would you care to explain why his five-fer in the Caribbean was not an example of him doing well in Test cricket?

Would you care to explain his average of well into the 30's in Test cricket?

 

[Tim]

I think you have to be a little bit arrogant to get to the top. If you're not confident in your abilities then you'll never be competitive enough.

I think it's fine to be arrogant on the cricket-field..but off the field attitudes, like expecting to be served first at a restaurant because you play high-level cricket is unacceptable.

 

[Craig]

Yes, but what about when he's fully fit and ducks out of challenges?

Well my only and logical assumption is that he is worried about getting injured again.

 

[tooextracool]

It seems to me they're also doing a very good job in picking the batsmen as well - can it be just coincidence that Strauss came in and got a ton and a 90, then Key comes in and gets a double?

i really dont understand how anyone can back the english selections after they've continually picked the fearsome foursome for the ODIs and picked rikki clarke for the test series in the carribean despite doing absolutely nothing in his ODI career to date.

 

[deeps]

Yes, but what about when he's fully fit and ducks out of challenges?

he didnt' do a very gd job off ducking out of the challenge thrown down by brett lee!!

neway,tudor is a very gd talent...needs more opportunity and luck...

 

[PY]

Good joke but shocking situation. Haven't liked Brett Lee since that day and it is unlikely I ever will, even if he gifts England the Ashes in 2005.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I can't believe anyone could ever get near rating Tudor. Can someone remind me what his injury record is?

 

[PY]

We've only got a 10,000 word limit per post.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Meaning?

 

[PY]

Think about it for a while.

 

[a massive zebra]

i really dont understand how anyone can back the english selections after they've continually picked the fearsome foursome for the ODIs and picked rikki clarke for the test series in the carribean despite doing absolutely nothing in his ODI career to date.

At least we agree on something.