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Stephen Fleming is the worst ever

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Loony BoB said:
From the moment I first saw him after checking his cricinfo page when he helped Kent to victory over NZ this year, I thought Key was the least God-gifted in the looks department in world cricket. Styris comes second.
Oh for Reon King...
 

Loony BoB

International Captain
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
It's a telling thing that Fleming wouldn't even make the Australian best XI.
I think it's quite possible he'd get there, particularly on current form. He'd have a shout for World XI, too. Although I can't remember if "a telling thing" means "for definite" or not anymore. Darn words with multiple meanings. But yeah, if I was Australian, I'd easily put in Fleming to captain my team over a few years, sacrificing one of the top four batsmen.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Loony BoB said:
I think it's quite possible he'd get there, particularly on current form. He'd have a shout for World XI, too. Although I can't remember if "a telling thing" means "for definite" or not anymore. Darn words with multiple meanings. But yeah, if I was Australian, I'd easily put in Fleming to captain my team over a few years, sacrificing one of the top four batsmen.
Who would he displace though? Not Hayden or Langer. Not Ponting or Gilchrist. He shouldn't replace Lehmann or Martyn on their records.

Fleming is a fine player, but I think he'd be a second-string Aussie player. No disrespect though, because I think there are only 3 players in the world who would walk into the Australian batting side.
 

Loony BoB

International Captain
You're forgetting the option of having him as captain, which in my opinion adds at least 20 runs to his batting average because that's the difference he'll make on the field - I firmly believe that should any other captain come into a side of NZ's ability and face any other team in the world, they would concede 20 more runs than Fleming would out of sheer lack of captaincy skills. Therefore I feel he is worth Martyn or Lehmann's records.

Maybe I'm just bias, but I honestly believe that he is that good a captain, and I'm sure there are many who would agree with me that he's a true world class player who would be capable of leading a world XI...

...and I just remembered that I'm in an ODI mindset right now since I'm watching the Natwest final. So let me rephrase that - I would easily say that Fleming would be capable of making himself a permanent player in Australia's ODI XI, not their test team.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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I think that Australia is the sort of organization where you'd have to earn your place in the team with your playing skills first and only then be considered as a captain. As I said, Fleming is a good player, but the Australian standards are tyically very high.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Loony BoB said:
You're forgetting the option of having him as captain, which in my opinion adds at least 20 runs to his batting average because that's the difference he'll make on the field

Would he make such a big difference the players are more talented though?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
What does it matter that Fleming would not get into Australia's side?
As has been said, few would.
He's more than good enough for New Zealand's side, and that's all that matters.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Still good enough to average just a touch under 40 in Test-cricket, though.
It is unquestionably true that he scores too many single-figure scores, though, I've always noted that. If he scored more 20s and 30s and less single-figures, he'd average much more like 43-4.
IMO Fleming is a batsman just looking like coming into his own after years and years of underachievement.
 

PY

International Coach
I've been told it was a fluent fifty which provided the first occasion of the side batting first to win but that's another topic.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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PY said:
I've been told it was a fluent fifty which provided the first occasion of the side batting first to win but that's another topic.
Well aside from the simple chance put down by Gayle when he was on 7 and the almost hit wicket/bowled before that. It was a pretty good knock though.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Tim said:
What the? Fleming is an average batsman? lol you're idiot Tom.
Where did I ever say that? I simply stated that he wasn't amazing - and I'm not sure that he would get into the Australia 'A' team purely as a batsman. The captaincy thing might change that though...
 

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