Improvements in Indian domestic cricket

[Deja moo]

If they are reed thin, they have to put in a lot of effort to bowl fast, for a long time, leading to injuries and burnout. If they have muscle power, they can put in a little less effort and will last longer. All fast bowlers who were successful, were very muscular. Look at the fearsome West Indian fast bowlers, Lillee, Thomson, Willis, Wasim Akram, Hadlee or even Kapil Dev. They all had a good build

Yea but all those bowler you mentioned probably started out with a good build without having to train for it.

It is a known fact that if you attempt muscle training before 23 or 24 ( individuals vary ) , you will lose a bit of flexibility and most probably stunt your growth ( the epiphyses of the bones fuse early if muscle building is attempted early , leading to a reduction in final height etc).

Your point is valid in case of bowlers after 23 etc.

 

[Deja moo]

Also , a major component of fast bowling is the inborn laxity and flexibility of the ligaments of the shoulder and elbow joints ( similar to how flexible wrists help spinners and batsmen).

The more lax your ligaments are , the more you will end up Hyper extending them ( yes , as in Murali ).This hyper extension is more useful to pace bowlers than spinners as the pacemen operate at a higher speed .

The more flexible your ligaments are ,the more potential energy they will store on extending them .A whiplash sort of effect occurs and that potential energy is translated into increased pace at which the ball is delivered ( look at Akhtar and Lee.You wouldnt call Lee a body builder.It is the incredible flexibility in the ligaments of his shoulder that allows him to deliver at such quick speeds.)

 

[marc71178]

Some part-timers, such as Sanath, Gayle, Styris and Symonds are good enough to get a longer spell, and so is Sehwag.

Gayle is far more than a One Day Part-timer - he's a full time bowler.

 

[Arjun]

Yea but all those bowler you mentioned probably started out with a good build without having to train for it.

It is a known fact that if you attempt muscle training before 23 or 24 ( individuals vary ) , you will lose a bit of flexibility and most probably stunt your growth ( the epiphyses of the bones fuse early if muscle building is attempted early , leading to a reduction in final height etc).

Your point is valid in case of bowlers after 23 etc.

Why are Pakistani youngsters capable of bowling at top speeds at a young age? And Australians? Indians at that age bowl at Bangar's pace and stay that slow, unless they put in a lot of effort and use their whole body, like Zaheer, thus getting injured. Look at raw pace bowlers and who's fastest, and they should be given a proper diet and training exercises, so that they don't stay short and they don't get injured. I don't ask for a Mr.India type of build, but at least that of a quality fast bowler. As for the right height, this is why I mentioned, the taller the better.

You wouldnt call Lee a body builder.It is the incredible flexibility in the ligaments of his shoulder that allows him to deliver at such quick speeds.)

Compared to Indian fast bowlers, he is a bodybuilder. Besides, his muscles may not make him fast, but theykeep him in action a lot longer.

Look at this example. To get a bouncer bowled, Agarkar has to put in a lot of effort, and loses steam. Walsh, on the other hand, can do it easily. Even this one- Harmison gets so many overs in Tests, that he runs out of steam, and loses his effect in ODI's. Tearaway fast bowlers should not bowl long spells.

 

[tooextracool]

Bevan has hit a few fours and sixes- he does not hit sixes very often, but he is capable. It's just that hard hitting is not his main strength..

and the same can be said about laxman......

Even then, there is a foundation laid by Adam Gilchrist, who wins matches by hitting fours and sixes. Six-hitting is a skill, and not as unethical as most Indian experts think.

yes and thats why you have players like sehwag,sachin,ganguly,yuvraj,kaif.....ahh the list goes on!

 

[Neil Pickup]

Harmison gets so many overs in Tests, that he runs out of steam, and loses his effect in ODI's.

Care to explain, or is this going to be wholly statistically based and not taking any account of the remodelled action?

 

[Arjun]

Care to explain, or is this going to be wholly statistically based and not taking any account of the remodelled action?

You must have heard the SKY team repeatedly highlight the number of overs he bowls, and also a few posters here. Because he bowls so many overs, they don't want him in ODI's, so that he can stay fresh in Tests.

 

[Arjun]

yes and thats why you have players like sehwag,sachin,ganguly,yuvraj,kaif.....ahh the list goes on!

None of them bat like Gilchrist.

 

[Neil Pickup]

You must have heard the SKY team repeatedly highlight the number of overs he bowls, and also a few posters here. Because he bowls so many overs, they don't want him in ODI's, so that he can stay fresh in Tests.

Yes, but that doesn't mean he loses his effect in ODIs and it's utterly out of context...

 

[tooextracool]

None of them bat like Gilchrist.

umm sehwag bats like gilchrist......but the point is that all those batsman are capable of hitting sixes and in abundance

 

[tooextracool]

yes and besides, the sky team is useless

 

[Arjun]

Another suggestion would be to highlight certain players in each team by the media. We hear of Australian fans talk a lot about Michael Clarke, Martin Love, Brad Hodge and Shaun Tait, and all this is because of proper marketing and publicity. The likes of JP Yadav, Ramesh Powar, Munaf Patel and Gautam Gambhir should also spark a lot of interest in Indian fans. Let them know of other possible alternatives for the national and A-team.

 

[Arjun]

umm sehwag bats like gilchrist......but the point is that all those batsman are capable of hitting sixes and in abundance

Sehwag tries to put in a lot of effort into his sixes, which results in those unorthodox shots that he plays. Gilchrist, on the other hand, hits his sixes with clean cricket shots.

 

[Deja moo]

Sehwag tries to put in a lot of effort into his sixes, which results in those unorthodox shots that he plays. Gilchrist, on the other hand, hits his sixes with clean cricket shots.

ok , but the end result is still six right ?

what more do you want ?

 

[Arjun]

ok , but the end result is still six right ?

Luckily.....

what more do you want ?

Safe sixes, and shots that travel a long way, such as those hit by Yuvraj and Pathan. These two batsmen are most capable of hitting safe sixes that go a long way. Nothing wrong with Sehwag's style of batting, but this batsman that I want to have will help the team a lot, just as Gilchrist and Gayle are helping their teams. Besides, such batsmen are needed in domestic matches, for 3 reasons-

1. Bowlers get used to six-hitting batsmen and they work them out, thus making them better prepared for the big hitters of international cricket.
2. The batting sides aim for a win.
3. The matches are more exciting.

 

[Neil Pickup]

2. As opposed to aiming to lose? Is Azhar back?

 

[tooextracool]

Sehwag tries to put in a lot of effort into his sixes, which results in those unorthodox shots that he plays. Gilchrist, on the other hand, hits his sixes with clean cricket shots.

what exactly are you trying to prove here? first you say that the indian team doesnt have enough six hitters yet when i pointed out half a dozen players that are as capable(if not more) than the australians you say none are like gilchrist. when i say sehwag is as aggressive as gilchrist you say he cant hit clean sixes.....well lets see how much of an effect this has on the stats then shall we?
avg SR
sehwag 34.38 95.79
gilchrist 35.73 94.27

im afraid you cant find any 2 players as similar as that. so gilchrist's 'clean six hittin' is obviously as effective as sehwag's......

 

[Arjun]

sehwag is as aggressive as gilchrist you say he cant hit clean sixes.....well lets see how much of an effect this has on the stats then shall we?

Sehwag bats more like Sanath- he tries to hit a lot of sixes over point. He doesn't play the best strokes for his sixes- he just tries to hit the ball hard. Besides, Gilchrist is more reliable.

 

[Arjun]

2. As opposed to aiming to lose? Is Azhar back?

No, as opposed to just play for a draw. A lot of FC matches in India end in slow-scoring draws.

 

[tooextracool]

He doesn't play the best strokes for his sixes- he just tries to hit the ball hard.

im assuming you dont see too much of gilchrist then? who will ever forget the way he tried to slog everything of harbhajan's out of the park in that world cup final in 03.....

Besides, Gilchrist is more reliable.

and thats represented by the similar averages is it?