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Dravid not keen to don gloves - and why should he be?

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
This was posted on Rediff.com
From Rediff.com
Dravid not keen to don gloves
India batsman Rahul Dravid is hopeful teenage Test wicketkeeper Parthiv Patel will relieve him soon as the side's one-day gloveman.

Dravid is among the top Test batsmen in the world, but won a regular one-day spot only after agreeing to keep wicket two seasons ago. The move helped India play an extra batsman.

However, the 31-year-old has often spoken of the strain of keeping wicket.

"Wicketkeeping is not something that comes naturally to me. I look upon it as a challenge and I try and do my best," Dravid told reporters on Saturday.

"I hope Parthiv will be given the opportunity to become a full-fledged wicketkeeper batsman (in one-dayers) that probably India needs in the future."

He said he hoped Patel's improving Test batting on the last two tours of Australia and Pakistan would earn him a regular one-day spot soon.
And why should he be? He has only been wicketkeeping from the age of 29/30, for the first time, he's a batsman with a lot of work on his hands, and now the large gloves. He is not a wicketkeeper, he is just asked to do the job. He will do it, being the team man, but he can't do it well enough. He still drops 8 catches and misses 3 stumpings in every 3rd match. Ever since he has started wicketkeeping, the Indian team has conceded just 5 totals under 250, all against weak batting sides like Sri Lanka and New Zealand. They have conceded 8 totals over 300, three over 340 against the Aussies. The spinners are always let down. There have just been 2 ODI series victories that mean anything- one gift-wrapped by English bowlers and fielders, the other, a hard and laboured one which should have been an easy stroll. Ultimately, Dravid may get injured regularly, having to do a tough and thankless job. An early exit may also be likely. Where is the so-called balance? It is time for a change.

Parthiv Patel, though, should work on his wicketkeeping more than on his batting. He has some technical flaws which hamper his keeping to spinners (especially when he gets down too quickly), and that hampers not only strike bowlers (Kumble) but also those who are having a hard time (Karthik). The team should also look for other options. There is no Adam Gilchrist in India. But there may be several Ian Healys who are good for the team, in a way. They deserve a fair try.

If balance is needed, they can try these-
  1. Sehwag can play as a regular bowler and not a three-over pie-thrower
  2. Pathan and Balaji can improve their batting and get opportunities above 9, 10 and 11.
  3. Ramesh Powar, the best bowling all-rounder in India, must get more chances.
  4. Reetinder Sodhi should build more muscle and improve his bowling.
They provide better balance any day.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Arjun said:
He still drops 8 catches and misses 3 stumpings in every 3rd match.
is there a time when you dont exaggerate?

Arjun said:
Ever since he has started wicketkeeping, the Indian team has conceded just 5 totals under 250, all against weak batting sides like Sri Lanka and New Zealand. They have conceded 8 totals over 300, three over 340 against the Aussies.
yes its quite clearly dravids fault......especially considering some of the rubbish bowling hes been put up with.

Arjun said:
(especially when he gets down too quickly)
you do mean "when he gets up too quickly dont you?

Arjun said:
But there may be several Ian Healys who are good for the team, in a way. They deserve a fair try.
yes because healys are a dime a dozen in india.....you can just buy one in the corner shop cant you?

yes dravid shouldnt be used as a keeper but after reading a senseless post like this i doubt you've convinced anybody.........
 

Waughney

International Debutant
Arjun said:
If balance is needed, they can try these-
  1. Sehwag can play as a regular bowler and not a three-over pie-thrower
  2. Pathan and Balaji can improve their batting and get opportunities above 9, 10 and 11.
  3. Ramesh Powar, the best bowling all-rounder in India, must get more chances.
  4. Reetinder Sodhi should build more muscle and improve his bowling.
They provide better balance any day.
1) Not that easy to change from a "pie-thrower" to a regular bowler.
2) Don't you think that they are already doing that.
3) Agree
4) Already doing that.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
This is really not about being for or against Dravid who is trying his best in a thankless assignment. This is just about the captains assessment of whether the difference in Rahul's class and that of the keeper who would replace him is going to win India more of the matches they have lost as against the ones we have won due to vital contributions of the extra batsman (its mostly batsman) that we have brought into the side.

Much though I prefer having a specialist fielder, I am afraid, we tend to remember more of Dravids dropped catches and stumpings (all of which dont lose matches for India) than Yuvraj's or Kaif's match winning innings.

Surely Ganguly's sole ambition in his career as captain is to maximise his chances of winning and he is surely doing that to his best understanding of the actual situation from such close quarters.

Further, through accident or because of it, Dravid has performed far better as batsman in the ODI's he has kept wickets in than those he hasnt.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
tooextracool said:
is there a time when you dont exaggerate?
I have seen enough of Dravid's wicketkeeping to say that.

SJS said:
Much though I prefer having a specialist fielder, I am afraid, we tend to remember more of Dravids dropped catches and stumpings (all of which dont lose matches for India) than Yuvraj's or Kaif's match winning innings.
When the Indians have won just 2 ODI series with him as keeper, it would happen. If they won 5 or more, the efforts of Yuvraj and Kaif would be remembered more. Sadly, Kaif is more often remembered for lack of form.

Waughney said:
Not that easy to change from a "pie-thrower" to a regular bowler.
He's not your average pie thrower. On 3 occasions when he has been used for more than 5 overs, he has come good. He deserves a longer run as a bowler. He is young and has experience as a bowler in domestic matches. It helps to have a Sanath or Styris in your team, so that is what I want out of Sehwag.

Don't you think that they are already doing that.
Pathan still bats at 8 or 9. Balaji comes in as low as 10 or 11. How will they ever get enough chances? Look at the chances Flintoff and Chris Lewis, in the past, have got. Why not these two?

This is just about the captains assessment of whether the difference in Rahul's class and that of the keeper who would replace him is going to win India more of the matches they have lost as against the ones we have won due to vital contributions of the extra batsman (its mostly batsman) that we have brought into the side.
How useful was it? Dinesh Mongia was clearly not contributing, Kaif was out of form and Badani did not contribute enough. In most of the victories, only 2 series wins, just 3 batsmen really contributed. Quantity of batting is not important, but QUALITY is.

Further, through accident or because of it, Dravid has performed far better as batsman in the ODI's he has kept wickets in than those he hasnt.
considering he has played just a few matches, it can be considered lucky. But the real reason is the effort he put into his batting.

yes because healys are a dime a dozen in india.....you can just buy one in the corner shop cant you?
Not specifically as good as Ian Healy, but good wicketkeepers who miss out because they can't bat as well as the Sachins and Dravids.

especially considering some of the rubbish bowling hes been put up with.
This is what Boycott said about the Australians- they have a good bowling attack, and backed up by exceptionally good fielding, you have an exceptionally good attack. Not all Indian bowlers are rubbish, but it would help them a lot if the fielders and wicketkeepers supported them.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Pathan still bats at 8 or 9. Balaji comes in as low as 10 or 11. How will they ever get enough chances? Look at the chances Flintoff and Chris Lewis, in the past, have got. Why not these two?
How can you possibly compare Pathan (or even more ridiculously, Balaji) to Flintoff? I think that India has 2 very good bowlers (not yet, but they will be) in Balaji and Pathan, and they should stay bowlers. Why try to create an all rounder in the Flintoff mould out of Pathan or Balaji? Let the bowlers bowl, without placing the unneccessary pressure of being an integral part of the batting hindering their success. This point of yours contradicts your point of Dravid not keeping, you think he shouldn't keep and be a batsman only, so why shouldn't Pathan/Balaji concentrate on their primary skill?
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
How can you possibly compare Pathan (or even more ridiculously, Balaji) to Flintoff? I think that India has 2 very good bowlers (not yet, but they will be) in Balaji and Pathan, and they should stay bowlers. Why try to create an all rounder in the Flintoff mould out of Pathan or Balaji? Let the bowlers bowl, without placing the unneccessary pressure of being an integral part of the batting hindering their success. This point of yours contradicts your point of Dravid not keeping, you think he shouldn't keep and be a batsman only, so why shouldn't Pathan/Balaji concentrate on their primary skill?
You should see early footage of Flintoff's batting- it was horrible. If he can improve his batting to this level, why can't these two? Besides, they're not great bowlers, so they have to improve that other skill. They have talent- Sandeep Patil, Pathan's junior coach, rates his batting as good as that of a number 6. Why waste such talent? They have better chances of improving their batting in an age of average bowlers and flat pitches, than Dravid has of improving his wicketkeeping. That job is not at all simple- which is why each team has only 1 wicketkeeper.

Think about the balance it will add. You can have a batting lineup all the way down to 8, and you can even opt for an extra bowler. After all, if a wicketkeeper has to learn to bat, why not a bowler? Don't you want a Shaun Pollock or a Chris Cairns in your team?
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Its a shame he isnt keen... he is certainly more valuable than that kid patel, even if Dravid does miss the odd chance, it frees up a whole position in the team, so they can have an extra bowler/batsman instead of Patel...
 

Sudeep

International Captain
Arjun said:
You should see early footage of Flintoff's batting- it was horrible. If he can improve his batting to this level, why can't these two? Besides, they're not great bowlers, so they have to improve that other skill. They have talent- Sandeep Patil, Pathan's junior coach, rates his batting as good as that of a number 6. Why waste such talent? They have better chances of improving their batting in an age of average bowlers and flat pitches, than Dravid has of improving his wicketkeeping. That job is not at all simple- which is why each team has only 1 wicketkeeper.

Think about the balance it will add. You can have a batting lineup all the way down to 8, and you can even opt for an extra bowler. After all, if a wicketkeeper has to learn to bat, why not a bowler? Don't you want a Shaun Pollock or a Chris Cairns in your team?
I'm not sure if Pathan can be as good to be a no. 6, but he surely is worthy of no. 8 right now, and with a little improvement, maybe no. 7.

Balaji, I don't agree. He's not the best of bowlers to be honest, so that's where he needs to improve. His batting isn't anything to hype about. He's a genuine no. 9 or 10, and shouldn't aim higher.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Arjun said:
You should see early footage of Flintoff's batting- it was horrible. If he can improve his batting to this level, why can't these two? Besides, they're not great bowlers, so they have to improve that other skill.
flintoff was never "horrible".....he always had potential with the bat which is why he was picked to play as a batsman for england. the problem he had was completely temperamental, he kept throwing his bat at absolutely everything. it is quite ridiculous to compare a tailender(balaji) to flintoff......
and yes pathan isnt a "great" bowler yet but he can become one......
 

ReallyCrazy

Banned
i agree with lang on this one. Yea Dravid is not keen to keep but it is the best for india if he does the job. i dont mind the odd dropped catch or missed stumping. It adds more balance to the side. India has done much better with him as keeper than when he wasn't keeping. Really think about it...we had a guy like nayan "aiegaaa" mongia and what did he do for the side? He was a better keeper than dravid, no doubt. But his batting was worthless. he was a disgrace. it is imperative for the wicketkeeper to be a good batter. this is needed to be competitive in international cricket. dravid does a good job, the results indicate this fact.
 

Sudeep

International Captain
ReallyCrazy said:
i agree with lang on this one. Yea Dravid is not keen to keep but it is the best for india if he does the job. i dont mind the odd dropped catch or missed stumping. It adds more balance to the side. India has done much better with him as keeper than when he wasn't keeping. Really think about it...we had a guy like nayan "aiegaaa" mongia and what did he do for the side? He was a better keeper than dravid, no doubt. But his batting was worthless. he was a disgrace. it is imperative for the wicketkeeper to be a good batter. this is needed to be competitive in international cricket. dravid does a good job, the results indicate this fact.
But how can India stake a claim to be the best, when we have to compromise on a basic aspect of cricket to do so?
 

ReallyCrazy

Banned
Sudeep said:
But how can India stake a claim to be the best, when we have to compromise on a basic aspect of cricket to do so?
india can stake a claim to be the best by winning the matches they play. They have done this more with dravid as keeper than with guys like mongia. if india can find a player like gilchrist or at least boucher (or patel improves to their level), then dravid doesn't have to keep but until then he has to.
 

Sudeep

International Captain
ReallyCrazy said:
india can stake a claim to be the best by winning the matches they play. They have done this more with dravid as keeper than with guys like mongia. if india can find a player like gilchrist or at least boucher (or patel improves to their level), then dravid doesn't have to keep but until then he has to.
Yes, but we have and may lose important matches, because of this compromise, knowingly or unknowingly.
 

ReallyCrazy

Banned
agree with that. but id rather have a below average keeper who is an excellent batter than a below average batter who is an excellent keeper. thats my opinion.

india has lost more matches with mongia (due to this disgraceful batting) than because of of dravid's below average keeping.
 

Raj123

U19 Debutant
Sudeep said:
Yes, but we have and may lose important matches, because of this compromise, knowingly or unknowingly.
i think dravid's keeping and kaif's fielding balance each other out
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
ReallyCrazy said:
agree with that. but id rather have a below average keeper who is an excellent batter than a below average batter who is an excellent keeper. thats my opinion.
Not only are you getting that, but you are also freeing up a bowling/batting spot by not playing Patel... That is what swings it IMO...
 

shankar

International Debutant
Sudeep said:
Yes, but we have and may lose important matches, because of this compromise, knowingly or unknowingly.
We've won a lot more matches due to that extra 7th batsman than lost due to Dravid messing up.
 

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