International Twelfth Men

[Langeveldt]

It seems that the current NZ lineup are losing test matches because of some quite shocking luck in the injury department.. Its painful to watch really.. And its not that fair on them, although England can of course only play who they are up against...
Does this make the case for having 12th men who can take an active part in the match? Such as batting and bowling instead of just fielding...

However these guys should only be allowed to take part obviously if there are players who have picked up injuries during the match... I however have a feeling this system being abused, I mean whats there to stop Shoaib getting hot and bothered in Karachi and faking a side strain in order to get a fresh bowler in the game.. Any opinions?

 

[Loony BoB]

I have wondered about it, really, and I think that if it goes ahead it should only be with acceptance by the opposition, and you do have to wonder how many teams would really show that kind of sportsmanship.

The player chosen should also only be used if they are similar to those injured. For example, you wouldn't say "Oh, Martin is injured, let's bring in Vettori" or something.

 

[MoxPearl]

sometimes u wonder that. i mean our 2 main strike bowlers in the side and our only spinner on the tour aswell as new zealands best bowler and 2nd best are both injured lolO

I think that if they did that then once the new person comes on then the other person could not come back for the rest of the test match...

 

[Loony BoB]

I think that if they did that then once the new person comes on then the other person could not come back for the rest of the test match...

Definitely.

 

[Scallywag]

I think each team should have 12 players and 11 can bat and 11 can bowl.

Let the captains use it to his best advantage.

 

[marc71178]

Does this make the case for having 12th men who can take an active part in the match? Such as batting and bowling instead of just fielding...

I'm against this - think that it's one of the parts of the game that makes it what a game it is!

 

[bennyr]

I would be appalled if anything of the sort was adopted. The existing 12th man and batting runner laws have been routinely abused in my memory:

- Arjuna Ranutunga used a runner most of the time when he would not have been entitled to one if he was being honest about his "injury".
- Without fail, after finishing an opening spell, one of the opening bowlers of the great Windies of the early 80's would go off "injured". Enter Roger Harper - a very ordinary all-rounder but an exceptional fielder.

That sort of stuff is the gamesmanship that we have come to expect from international teams. Does anyone expect that any player who is not suited to the conditions will not pick up a mysterious "injury" if the conditions suit the 12th man?

Come On. We all know what would happen. There's no definite way of policing it.

 

[Loony BoB]

Possibly have the opposition's physio diagnose the injury and the opposing team decide if the replacement is acceptable?

Not that I'm for it, just for the sake of argument.

 

[bennyr]

Possibly have the opposition's physio diagnose the injury and the opposing team decide if the replacement is acceptable?

Not that I'm for it, just for the sake of argument.

A system open to abuse by unscrupulous physiotherapists, which leads us to the ugly thought of "neutral" physio's to assess objectively.

Teams have done it tough throughout history when players get injured, especially strike bowlers. It's a bit rough when your team is suffering, but I don't think there is a way of simply implementing an alternative that is not open to misuse.

 

[ash chaulk]

I believe it could work in test match situations where a player has been looked over by a doctor who would then notify officials that a players is definetly unable to return to the match

 

[superkingdave]

What i want to know is, will they get those electronic boards to hold up for substitutions, and will there be time added on?

 

[marc71178]

Finally the 4th Official gets something to do other than look after the balls!

 

[age_master]

I'm against this - think that it's one of the parts of the game that makes it what a game it is!

i agree, its always been this way and i dont think that there is sufficient need to change it - most teams use 4 or 5 bowlers- icluding an all orunder and there is always a batsman who can roll their arm over if the bowlers need a rest

 

[Linda]

Yeah I wouldnt really be for it either, injuries are an just an unfortunate part of the game.
Plus, using 12th men may encourage more teams to include players who arn't fully fit.

 

[V Reddy]

Wasn't this the same thing that ICC recommended a few days back? I was against it then in that thread and i am against it now too for the reasons outlined above

 

[Craig]

What i want to know is, will they get those electronic boards to hold up for substitutions, and will there be time added on?

An extra half an hour or another five overs?

 

[Kent]

sometimes u wonder that. i mean our 2 main strike bowlers in the side and our only spinner on the tour aswell as new zealands best bowler and 2nd best are both injured lolO

NZ has a 2nd best bowler?

I suppose it's Tuffey, although Bracewell and Crocker have maintained Tuffey actually isn't injured, and that his knee isn't hurting him in the slightest.