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Thread: The man for a crisis?

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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    The man for a crisis?

    With Nasser's retirement, Cricinfo decided to look into the batsmen to get their team out of a hole.

    A hole was defined as being 25-1, 50-2, 75-3 or 100-4 (max runs at that wicket fall) and the results were quite interesting.

    Ricky Ponting came up top with an average of 60, compared with his career average of 54.72 and Hussain second (41.32 vs. 37.19)

    Interestingly, the 2 worst highlighted were none other than Steve Waugh and Rahul Dravid...
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    International Captain Cloete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    With Nasser's retirement, Cricinfo decided to look into the batsmen to get their team out of a hole.

    A hole was defined as being 25-1, 50-2, 75-3 or 100-4 (max runs at that wicket fall) and the results were quite interesting.

    Ricky Ponting came up top with an average of 60, compared with his career average of 54.72 and Hussain second (41.32 vs. 37.19)

    Interestingly, the 2 worst highlighted were none other than Steve Waugh and Rahul Dravid...
    Interesting.... I was triyng to explain this before to liam
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloete
    Interesting.... I was triyng to explain this before to liam
    And did I ever deny it?

    For the information of others, he refers to our Lara v Ponting argument. I can't understand how anyone could rate Ponting level with Lara, let alone better than him, but Cloete tends to suggest it. For the record, the referred to article (here ) states that Lara has scored 19% of his team's runs. Only Bradman and Headly are higher. Suffice to say, Ponting is nowhere near.
    Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend."


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    International Debutant Waughney's Avatar
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    And that's due to the fact that players in Ponting's team can actually score runs (and just for the record IMO Lara is still better than Ponting)
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    U19 12th Man bennyr's Avatar
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    That is really interesting. If you'd have asked me who I wanted coming in at 3/58 I'd have given you either Allan Border or Steve Waugh.

    Yet another one of my firmly held beliefs debunked.

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    International Debutant Waughney's Avatar
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    I don't entirely agree with this statistic. Steve Waughs average is still 3 higher than Hussain's and Ponting usually comes in with only 1 wicket down, before pressure is really on.

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    First Class Debutant Jnr.'s Avatar
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    Interesting, to say the least. I went and searched up when Ponting has scored a century and the situation he walks in at:

    Batting at No. 6:
    127 - 4/50 - Eng
    105 - 4/77 - SA

    104 - 4/144 - WI
    105* - 4/183 - SL
    197 - 4/54 - Pak
    125 - 4/52 - Ind

    141* - 4/267 - Ind

    Batting at No. 3:
    144 - 1/39 - Eng
    157* - 1/223 - NZ
    100* - 1/102 - SA
    141 - 1/5 - Pak
    150 - 1/4 - Pak

    123 - 1/67 - Eng
    154 - 1/101 - Eng
    117 - 1/37 - WI
    206 - 1/49 - WI
    113 - 1/43 - WI
    169 - 1/7 - Zim
    242 - 1/22 - Ind

    257 - 1/30 - Ind

    I am even more surprised that SRW had a lower average, maybe it has something to do with his red inks.

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    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Interesting...
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    U19 12th Man Hoggy's Avatar
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    I thought I would do a profile of a certain player that I thought might have cracked a bit under pressure, the following is Damien Martyn.

    Code:
    Test #2  2nd Test v WI  92/93 2nd inn - Batted at 6, 4-73, made 67*
    Test #4  5th Test v WI  92/93 2nd inn - Batted at 6, 4-67, made 31
    Test #5  3rd Test @ NZ  92/93 1st inn - Batted at 4, 2-38, made 1
    "     "   "    "  "  "    "   2nd inn - Batted at 4, 2-8,  made 74
    Test #8  1st Test @ NZ  99/00 2nd inn - Batted at 6, 4-81, made 36
    Test #11 3rd Test v WI  00/01 2nd inn - Batted at 6, 4-48, made 34*
    Test #14 3rd Test @ Eng 2001  1st inn - Batted at 6, 4-82, made 4
    Test #25 3rd Test @ SAF 01/02 2nd inn - Batted at 6, 4-90, made 0
    Test #26 1st Test @ Pak 02/03 2nd inn - Batted at 6, 4-74, made 20
    Test #29 1st Test v Eng 02/03 2nd inn - Batted at 4, 2-39, made 64
    Test #33 5th Test v Eng 02/03 1st inn - Batted at 4, 2-45, made 26
    Test #37 2nd Test v Ind 03/04 2nd inn - Batted at 4, 2-18, made 38
    Test #41 2nd Test v SL  03/04 1st inn - Batted at 4, 2-47, made 1
    "     "   "   "   "  "    "   2nd inn - Batted at 4, 2-26, made 161
    
    14    innings
    2     not outs
    557   runs
    161   highest score
    3     50's
    1     100
    46.42 average
    
    
    Real Stats = 
    67    innings
    10    not outs
    2672  runs
    161   highest score
    15    50's
    7     100's
    46.87 average

    The last hundred he made certainly saved his under pressure average a bit there didn't it?
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    U19 12th Man bennyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggy
    14 innings
    2 not outs
    557 runs
    161 highest score
    3 50's
    1 100
    46.42 average


    Real Stats =
    67 innings
    10 not outs
    2672 runs
    161 highest score
    15 50's
    7 100's
    46.87 average[/code]


    The last hundred he made certainly saved his under pressure average a bit there didn't it?

    Be careful, you'll wake Linda up.

    To me, that list reads pretty much like Martyn's entire career - lots of scores between 30 and 70. I kinda think that having Martyn coming in in a crisis is OK - he's not likely to dig you out of it with a great century but he's equally unlikely (up until last summer) to be the next batsmen in a middle order collapse.

    And if he can regain that sort of form he will continue to be a great foil for the 2, 178, 13, 0, 208 sort of scoring we see from our illustrious Test captain

  11. #11
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waughney
    I don't entirely agree with this statistic. Steve Waughs average is still 3 higher than Hussain's and Ponting usually comes in with only 1 wicket down, before pressure is really on.
    Yes, but his record under pressure is worse than his overall record, suggesting he's not as good under pressure (relatively) as the general impression is.

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    PY
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyr
    Be careful, you'll wake Linda up.

    To me, that list reads pretty much like Martyn's entire career - lots of scores between 30 and 70. I kinda think that having Martyn coming in in a crisis is OK - he's not likely to dig you out of it with a great century but he's equally unlikely (up until last summer) to be the next batsmen in a middle order collapse.

    And if he can regain that sort of form he will continue to be a great foil for the 2, 178, 13, 0, 208 sort of scoring we see from our illustrious Test captain
    You make a good point, Martyn is someone who I always see as someone who can steady the ship (if not fix it) if things aren't going too well. He also has the ability to make the ship fly (to continue the theme).
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    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PY
    He also has the ability to make the ship fly (to continue the theme).
    Hahaha

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    International Vice-Captain Linda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyr
    Be careful, you'll wake Linda up.

    To me, that list reads pretty much like Martyn's entire career - lots of scores between 30 and 70. I kinda think that having Martyn coming in in a crisis is OK - he's not likely to dig you out of it with a great century but he's equally unlikely (up until last summer) to be the next batsmen in a middle order collapse.

    And if he can regain that sort of form he will continue to be a great foil for the 2, 178, 13, 0, 208 sort of scoring we see from our illustrious Test captain
    I'm awake

    Martyn's scores aren't spectacular, ala Ponting, but they are consistant. I'll never understand the people who say that not scoring a Test century in two years, and yet still maintaining a 40 average, is not good enough.
    And as for the constant talk about him not being good under pressure, I really cant see that either. Yeah, sure the century at the end "saved his average", but he still did it!! Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt say he's the best player to send out there is a real crunch situation, but I'd send him out there ahead of alot of other players...

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Yes, but his record under pressure is worse than his overall record, suggesting he's not as good under pressure (relatively) as the general impression is.
    That maybe true. But I think his perception as the man for a crisis has to do with the times that he has dug in and gone on to score real big ones and these have been quite a few. So instead of just looking at averages of all innings under crisis, one needs to look at the number of times he has gone on to play a real long lone-ranger's hand. This is what made his reputation.

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