The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread (white ball edition)

[honestbharani]

And thanks for the stats nonmck and stephen. Will take a look at them tomorrow. We don't get holidays this week here and have had a very long day at work.

 

[stephen]

Basically they say that opening relative to other positions has remained relatively stable over the years with openers always having a small average advantage. In the last year openers have prospered more than usual though.

 

[stephen]

I was genuinely surprised at how closely Tendulkar and Ponting's charts were for the majority of Ponting's career. Like their peaks and troughs even seemed to coincide.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Loving these graphs

 

[Daemon]

Both cannot be true at the same time?

They can, but if you're saying (a), I can understand where you're coming from. However if it's (b) then it's simply untrue. Batting as a whole has become easier, whether you bat 1 or 11.

Basically they say that opening relative to other positions has remained relatively stable over the years with openers always having a small average advantage. In the last year openers have prospered more than usual though.

Yeah this makes sense and is in line with general observation

 

[srbhkshk]

Kapil picked this team to play T20s from the days of his career -

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Crowe
Lloyd
Imran
Dujon
Akram
Garner
Donald
Kadir

(12th Man - Rhodes)

 

[ankitj]

Donald hardly had any overlap with Kapil. He could have picked Hadlee instead. But this is a fairly good effort. Usually ex-cricketers make meme ATG teams.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Before 1996, batsmen 3-7 struck substantially faster than the openers. Then Jayasuriya revolutionised the game and openers caught up to the lower order in strike rates.

Openers have averaged slightly more than 3-7 batsmen since the late 70s, though sometimes 3-7s average what the openers do.

View attachment 25018

Tendulkar vs the average openers.

View attachment 25019

Bevan vs the average 3-7.

Didn't Sachin first open in 1994?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I'll kick it off:

M.Waugh
Gilchrist +
Ponting
Jones
Watson
Symonds
Hussey
Warne
Lee
Starc
McGrath

To play a ROW XI:

Jayasuriya
Tendulkar
Kholi
Viv
De Villiers
Dhoni
Dev
Pollock
Akram
Garner
Murali

 

[stephen]

To play a ROW XI:

Jayasuriya
Tendulkar
Kholi
Viv
De Villiers
Dhoni
Dev
Pollock
Akram
Garner
Murali

I'd play a different Aus XI:

Waugh
Gilchrist+
Ponting
Jones
Symonds
Bevan
Hussey
Warne
Lee
Starc
McGrath

Although I'd consider bring in Watson to open ahead of Waugh to strengthen the bowling. But that batting lineup would be devastating. Every single one of those guys is a match winner.

The RoW XI would be better off with Ambrose or Donald over Pollock against Australia. Similarly, Jayasuriya is out of place against Australia. Better off with a better batsman given you already have 5 bowlers.

 

[stephen]

https://youtu.be/hFi778AoeRY

Just a reminder of how good Symonds was in the field. All class.

 

[Slifer]

Greenidge
Gayle
Hope+
Viv*
Lara
Lloyd
Hooper
Roberts
Holding
Ambrose
Garner

 

[ankitj]

Before 1996, batsmen 3-7 struck substantially faster than the openers. Then Jayasuriya revolutionised the game and openers caught up to the lower order in strike rates.

Openers have averaged slightly more than 3-7 batsmen since the late 70s, though sometimes 3-7s average what the openers do.

View attachment 25018

Tendulkar vs the average openers.

View attachment 25019

Bevan vs the average 3-7.

Will be better if you use moving averages rather than in-year averages. Graphs will be much less spikey, especially for the individual players; aggregate seem to be smooth regardless.

 

[stephen]

Will be better if you use moving averages rather than in-year averages. Graphs will be much less spikey, especially for the individual players; aggregate seem to be smooth regardless.

Might be better for the individual player charts but I was quite happy with how the aggregate charts turned out, which is what I based them all on.

 

[bagapath]

one team for white ball XI that can nicely switch to red ball when necessary without changing their preferred batting position in all formats

Jayasuriya (6)
Hayden
Viv Richards
Kohli
De Villiers
Imran (1)
Dhoni +*
Hadlee (2)
S Pollock (3)
Warne (4)
Murali (5)

 

[honestbharani]

Lacks an outright fast bowler but otherwise solid.

 

[bagapath]

Lacks an outright fast bowler but otherwise solid.

Peak Imran was 90 mph +

 

[Slifer]

one team for white ball XI that can nicely switch to red ball when necessary without changing their preferred batting position in all formats

Jayasuriya (6)
Hayden
Viv Richards
Kohli
De Villiers
Imran (1)
Dhoni +*
Hadlee (2)
S Pollock (3)
Warne (4)
Murali (5)

I'd replace Warne with Garner personally but solid team

 

[h_hurricane]

Kapil picked this team to play T20s from the days of his career -

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Crowe
Lloyd
Imran
Dujon
Akram
Garner
Donald
Kadir

(12th Man - Rhodes)

Solid team. Among the players whose careers overlapped with Kapil at least 5 years, I would go with the below team for T20s.

Gordon Greenidge
Kris Srikanth
Viv Richards
Aravinda De Silva
Clive Lloyd
Kapil Dev
Lance Cairns
Ian Smith
Roger Harper
Wasim Akram
Joel Garner

 

[ankitj]

Kris Srikanth was any good?